• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

Status
Not open for further replies.
MarkCorrigan said:
Vixen what is the symbol for denoting minutes of time?

Like if you wanted to write "I'll be there in 50 minutes" but didn't want to use the word or a shortening o it what symbol would you use? i.e. 10 grams = 10g ; 20 percent = 20% etc
Click to expand...
SI standard is 'min', without inverted commas.
When mixing minutes and seconds of time colons are the preferred separators, with indication whether hours/minutes or minutes/seconds are being used. The prime symbol or single inverted comma is deprecated.
Personally I feel the kilosecond should be used but I accept that I'm in a small minority for that....
 
Everett said:
And here I thought that a Mayday was reserved for "the ship's going down/is going to be going down soon/have a fire we can't control/run aground on the rocks/going to have to abandon ship now/soon for some other reason or without rapid help the ship will be lost."
Click to expand...

It's appropriate to any life-threatening emergency.
 
catsmate said:
The prime symbol or single inverted comma is deprecated.
Click to expand...

The only use of " for seconds I've ever been taught is for seconds of arc, never for a unit of time. I doubt anyone with any appreciable physics training would want to confuse units like that. Or anyone with maritime navigation training.

Personally I feel the kilosecond should be used but I accept that I'm in a small minority for that....
Click to expand...

I wouldn't object. We use raw seconds for rocket engine burn times even when they run for several minutes (i.e., hundreds or thousands of seconds).
 
catsmate said:
It's rather less than the standard AIRSAVE loadout too.
But these days satellite positioning and communications mean that civil vessels can expect rapid assistance.
Usually.....
Click to expand...

The basic problem with that loadout is that in areas like the Baltic in winter, if a ship sinks in the evening then it could be 12-14+ hours until the sun comes up, and there's not much there that could help you to be found at night. Sure the rescuers are there, but they'll have a hard time finding your liferaft. Adding a small light on the top and having flares means they can locate you much better at night without having to wait until the sun comes up. (Which fortunately was only a couple hours in the case of the Estonia.)
 
junkshop said:
To anyone who has recently discovered this thread:

Please read the earlier parts. When you do you will realise that the misunderstandings/errors/outright lies posted by some/a poster here have been addressed/disproven/debunked/rightly ridiculed over and over again.

Until and unless any new evidence comes to light, there is nothing more to say.
Click to expand...
To Everett:

If you haven't read the entire thread (my advice is: don't), there's all sorts of wonderful stories about a British escort submarine accidentally crashing into the Estonia, Russian submarines deliberately ramming the Estonia, minisubmarines rescuing people from the Estonia, truckloads of heroin being pushed out the bow doors during a storm, nuclear material dissolving the bow door locks (despite presumably being in a container suitable for radioactive materials on board a truck), wheeled submarines driving on the bottom of the Baltic sea, a rescue man being given a medal for bravery under false pretenses because he was actually involved in whisking away the senior crew of the ship and the medal was a bribe to keep him quiet, crew being whisked away to CIA black sites on board planes disguised as cargo flights, the captain being assassinated on the bridge, Spetsnaz being involved in the whole thing, explosive charges blowing a hole in the hull, the Estonia being hit by 'blank torpedoes'. etc.

It's a set of fantastical tall tales that changes from post to post with no concern for facts or consistency or basic common sense but with a lot of delusional imagination.

And for ***** and giggles, a sequence of truly bizarre rambling posts where Vixen showed an astonishing lack of understanding of list angles, and tried explaining them with something that was next to impossible to even parse in order to explain what was wrong about it.
 
Last edited:
JesseCuster said:
To Everett:

If you haven't read the entire thread (my advice is: don't), there's all sorts of wonderful stories about a British escort submarine accidentally crashing into the Estonia, Russian submarines deliberately ramming the Estonia, minisubmarines rescuing people from the Estonia, truckloads of heroin being pushed out the bow doors during a storm, nuclear material dissolving the bow door locks (despite presumably being in a container suitable for radioactive materials on board a truck), wheeled submarines driving on the bottom of the Baltic sea, a rescue man being given a medal for bravery under false pretenses because he was actually involved in whisking away the senior crew of the ship and the medal was a bribe to keep him quiet, crew being whisked away to CIA black sites on board planes disguised as cargo flights, the captain being assassinated, Spetsnaz being involved in the whole thing, explosive charges blowing a hole in the hull, the Estonia being hit by 'blank torpedoes'. etc.

It's a set of fantastical tall tales that changes from post to post with no concern for facts or consistency or basic common sense but with a lot of delusional imagination.

And for ***** and giggles, a sequence of truly bizarre rambling posts where Vixen showed an astonishing lack of understanding of list angles, and tried explaining them with something that was next to impossible to even parse in order to explain what was wrong about it.
Click to expand...

Excellent summary. Needs to be reiterated that all of these stories were presented by one single poster.

Around these stories there was also some excellent researched info provided by other posters describing what actually happened. None of which has been refuted by anything presented in a reopening of the case.
 
JesseCuster said:
To Everett:

If you haven't read the entire thread (my advice is: don't), there's all sorts of wonderful stories about a British escort submarine accidentally crashing into the Estonia, Russian submarines deliberately ramming the Estonia, minisubmarines rescuing people from the Estonia, truckloads of heroin being pushed out the bow doors during a storm, nuclear material dissolving the bow door locks (despite presumably being in a container suitable for radioactive materials on board a truck), wheeled submarines driving on the bottom of the Baltic sea, a rescue man being given a medal for bravery under false pretenses because he was actually involved in whisking away the senior crew of the ship and the medal was a bribe to keep him quiet, crew being whisked away to CIA black sites on board planes disguised as cargo flights, the captain being assassinated on the bridge, Spetsnaz being involved in the whole thing, explosive charges blowing a hole in the hull, the Estonia being hit by 'blank torpedoes'. etc.

It's a set of fantastical tall tales that changes from post to post with no concern for facts or consistency or basic common sense but with a lot of delusional imagination.

And for ***** and giggles, a sequence of truly bizarre rambling posts where Vixen showed an astonishing lack of understanding of list angles, and tried explaining them with something that was next to impossible to even parse in order to explain what was wrong about it.
Click to expand...



These were quotes from experts, who know better than you. You really are gullible if you think a cruise ferry with 70 Stockholm civil service police on board sinking in 35' is normal. For you, the sudden death of almost 1,000 people is quite natural and there is not a flicker of curiosity about it.
 
Steve said:
Excellent summary. Needs to be reiterated that all of these stories were presented by one single poster.

Around these stories there was also some excellent researched info provided by other posters describing what actually happened. None of which has been refuted by anything presented in a reopening of the case.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. These are the opinions of the German shipbuilders, for one, together with the former public prosecutor for Estonia. If you are not interested in the fate of Estonia then nobody is forcing you to read the thread. Or perhaps you think that anything that doesn't interest you or concern you personally should be censored and you will make sure to protest as much as you can because you can't bear anyone discussing something that interests them but not yourself.
 
Vixen said:
These were quotes from experts, who know better than you. You really are gullible if you think a cruise ferry with 70 Stockholm civil service police on board sinking in 35' is normal. For you, the sudden death of almost 1,000 people is quite natural and there is not a flicker of curiosity about it.
Click to expand...

Are Stockholm civil service police especially buoyant?
 
Vixen said:
Incorrect. These are the opinions of the German shipbuilders, for one, together with the former public prosecutor for Estonia. If you are not interested in the fate of Estonia then nobody is forcing you to read the thread. Or perhaps you think that anything that doesn't interest you or concern you personally should be censored and you will make sure to protest as much as you can because you can't bear anyone discussing something that interests them but not yourself.
Click to expand...

None of this is connected in any way to my post that you quoted. Merely a bunch of random and misplaced speculation.
 
Vixen said:
These were quotes from experts, who know better than you. You really are gullible if you think a cruise ferry with 70 Stockholm civil service police on board sinking in 35' is normal. For you, the sudden death of almost 1,000 people is quite natural and there is not a flicker of curiosity about it.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the water was deeper than that.
 
No Vixen, those were the opinions of delusional cranks, experts in certain things who had not actually investigated the wreck personally, and in one instance a satire website that you tried to pass off as serious.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom