Cont: The Russian invasion of Ukraine part 6

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theprestige said:
I do enjoy fantasizing about letting Putin walk away scott free - maybe even with a stipend and a dacha somewhere - IF it meant getting something of really amazing value in return. All of Ukraine. All of the cultural artifacts stolen from Ukraine. All of the Ukrainians stolen from Ukraine. I'd give Putin a lot of personal security and comfort guarantees in exchange for those things.

I don't enjoy fantasizing about letting Putin load up a plane with literal loot from his crimes and flying off into the sunset.
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There is zero chance of any of this happening unless Putin is in real danger of being ousted. Theres no way he'd be truly safe in Venezuela or another South American country. Say the POTUS, gives him his personal guarantee of safety, what happens when he's not POTUS anymore? And thats even IF that POTUS intended to keep to his word.

How many ex Nazi's did Israel manage to assassinate? And its not as if they are some big world power.

I mean sure in some hypothetical that Putin gets off scot free, but the war ends for real, and all the stolen children are returned to Ukraine... even if that just means the 2014 borders... yeah I'd take it in a heartbeat.
 
Aridas said:
Sure. With that said, though, it's probably worth noting that much intellectually bankrupt propaganda does tend to have appeal - emotional appeal. Further, it's emotions that tend to sway most people most of the time, rather than intellect. More educated people will tend to be in a better position to see how intellectually bankrupt a position may be, but they're hardly immune to letting things pass without actually checking based on the emotional appeal.
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Propaganda always appeals to emotions, and well educated people have emotions like everybody else which can be mainpulated.
People are human beings, not Vulcans.
 
lobosrul5 said:
There is zero chance of any of this happening unless Putin is in real danger of being ousted. Theres no way he'd be truly safe in Venezuela or another South American country. Say the POTUS, gives him his personal guarantee of safety, what happens when he's not POTUS anymore? And thats even IF that POTUS intended to keep to his word.

How many ex Nazi's did Israel manage to assassinate? And its not as if they are some big world power.
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A tiny fraction of how many they should have.
 
From USA Today, via MSN:

Kremlin lashes out at Time over Person of the Year

The Kremlin lashed out at Time magazine on Thursday for naming Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy its "Person of the Year," saying the selection was a reflection of the West's Russophobia.

"The magazine’s editorial directives remain within the boundaries of the pan-European mainstream, which is totally short-sighted, anti-Russian and vehemently Russophobic," Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.​

:rolleyes:
 
lobosrul5 said:
There is zero chance of any of this happening unless Putin is in real danger of being ousted. Theres no way he'd be truly safe in Venezuela or another South American country. Say the POTUS, gives him his personal guarantee of safety, what happens when he's not POTUS anymore? And thats even IF that POTUS intended to keep to his word.

How many ex Nazi's did Israel manage to assassinate? And its not as if they are some big world power.

I mean sure in some hypothetical that Putin gets off scot free, but the war ends for real, and all the stolen children are returned to Ukraine... even if that just means the 2014 borders... yeah I'd take it in a heartbeat.
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Not Enough.
 
SpitfireIX said:
From USA Today, via MSN:

Kremlin lashes out at Time over Person of the Year

The Kremlin lashed out at Time magazine on Thursday for naming Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy its "Person of the Year," saying the selection was a reflection of the West's Russophobia.

"The magazine’s editorial directives remain within the boundaries of the pan-European mainstream, which is totally short-sighted, anti-Russian and vehemently Russophobic," Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.​

:rolleyes:
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Well, Dmitry, behave the way Russia has been doing for the past few years, and people are not going to like you very much..........
 
SpitfireIX said:
From USA Today, via MSN:

Kremlin lashes out at Time over Person of the Year

The Kremlin lashed out at Time magazine on Thursday for naming Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy its "Person of the Year," saying the selection was a reflection of the West's Russophobia.

"The magazine’s editorial directives remain within the boundaries of the pan-European mainstream, which is totally short-sighted, anti-Russian and vehemently Russophobic," Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.​

:rolleyes:
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I dunno... seems like a pretty good choice to me.
 
arthwollipot said:
Gonna say I'm a little surprised by people supporting assassination as a political tool.
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"Support" is not the same as "expect". Personally, I expect Putin would get shot in the back by a fellow Russian if he seriously attempted to flee the country. Russia may let a mad dictator sink the ship but he'd definitely go down with it. He wouldn't need to worry about hit squads or polonium-infused chocolates in the mail while in exile, he wouldn't make it to the escape plane.

But I think that's completely academic because Putin knows it too, and won't attempt to flee. He's old, he's power-mad, he'll die on the throne as the palace burns around him because the alternatives are not acceptable.
 
TragicMonkey said:
"Support" is not the same as "expect". Personally, I expect Putin would get shot in the back by a fellow Russian if he seriously attempted to flee the country. Russia may let a mad dictator sink the ship but he'd definitely go down with it. He wouldn't need to worry about hit squads or polonium-infused chocolates in the mail while in exile, he wouldn't make it to the escape plane.

But I think that's completely academic because Putin knows it too, and won't attempt to flee. He's old, he's power-mad, he'll die on the throne as the palace burns around him because the alternatives are not acceptable.
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I was more referring to the people expressing the idea that Israel should have assassinated more Nazis.
 
Ian Osborne said:
I doubt it. In 2001, they named Rudy Giuliani instead of Osama Bin Laden. Since then, I’ve taken the ‘for better or worse’ thing with a pinch of salt.
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The "for better or for worse" thing always smacked as a kind of retrospective justification for all the mid 20th century despots they picked.
 
arthwollipot said:
Well then I'm a little surprised that people are supporting that.
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It's less surprising once one considers that a fair bit of the appeal is basically karmic appeal. It's not too hard to support the death penalty for those who aided, abetted, and sometimes even committed mass murder and genocide, before getting to the long list of other crimes against society and against humanity.

To turn the focus back towards Russia, the appeal of assassinating those Russians who, say, have been pushing for Russia to prioritize bombing hospitals probably isn't hard to understand. Nor the appeal of doing so to the kidnappers. Or the murdering rapists. Or... you get the picture, I think.
 
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Aridas said:
It's less surprising once one considers that a fair bit of the appeal is basically karmic appeal. It's not too hard to support the death penalty for those who aided, abetted, and sometimes even committed mass murder and genocide, before getting to the long list of other crimes against society and against humanity.
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Assassination and the death penalty are very different things. One is the result of a judicial process, and the other is extrajudicial murder.

I want to see war criminals caught, tried in an international criminal court, and given an appropriate legal punishment. Is it really that controversial an opinion that even war criminals are entitled this basic human right?
 
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