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Electric universe theories here.

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Righto you mob let’s focus here...on this kink in the jet...from a current driven instability (plasma not gas).

Steenkh, this is how easy it is to contradict yourselves.

What is a “jet”? In this case a AGN “jet”.

Specifically, what is “out flowing” in collimated magenticaly confined “jets” from an AGN/BH.

Do you even know?

We can then forget the gas is a plasma but plasma is not a gas game.
 
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Righto you mob let’s focus here...on this kink in the jet...from a current driven instability (plasma not gas).

You still haven’t gotten to the point. Why does this jet matter? What is it you think this jet shows us?
 
understand the overall mis- aligned structure of the source. Further observations at X- ray wavelengths to study the gas distribution, spectroscopic data to understand the cluster dynamics, high-resolution radio observations of the jets, and detailed polarization ob- servations would be useful for a detailed modelling and un- derstanding of the source.
barbell kink paper

Xray to study gas distribution? Ok...What’s the the pressure of this gas?

Why does in not diffuse, after calculating the gas pressure. You can use tusenfem’s formula couple post back.
 
You still haven’t gotten to the point. Why does this jet matter? What is it you think this jet shows us?

What is a “jet”? AGN/BH Variety. As discussed in the paper.

Do you have a link I can investigate?
 
So, instead of waiting for a non existent answer...

Relativistic Jets from Active Galactic Nuclei

The nuclei of most normal galaxies contain supermassive black holes, which can accrete gas through a disk and become active.

Relativistic AGN jets are formed when the black hole spins and the the accretion disk is strongly magnetized, perhaps on account of gas accreting at high latitude beyond the black hole sphere of influence.


So....Gas?

‘Cos, just a little further on...
AGN jets are collimated close to the black hole by magnetic stress associated with a disk wind. Higher-power jets can emerge from their galactic nuclei in a relativistic, supersonic, and proton-dominated state, and they terminate in strong, hot spot shocks; lower-power jets are degraded to buoyant plumes and bubbles. Jets may accelerate protons to EeV energies, which contribute to the cosmic ray spectrum and may initiate pair cascades that can efficiently radiate synchrotron γ-rays.

Magnetic stress? Disk wind? Still Gas, I ‘spose.

But

What’s this? proton-dominated state? A Gas dominated by protons?

Oh, I see.
Jets may accelerate protons to EeV energies,
jets of proton dominated Gas can accelerate charged particles now?

Is a gas a plasma? Asking for a very confused friend.
 
3.3. Jet Confinement
A long-standing question about AGN jets is how they are confined and collimated. This question likely has different answers at different radii. If we accept that the jet originates from close to the black hole, then it has been most commonly assumed that the jet is initially confined by the walls of a funnel formed by an ion-supported torus. However, this may not be present and, in any case, cannot extend to large distances where we still see jets being collimated. A gas dynamical disk wind may confine the black hole jet close to the hole (Globus & Levinson 2016). Alternatively, if the wind is hydromagnetic, then the jet may carry an axial current I which supports a toroidal magnetic field Bφ ∼ 0.3 (I/1 EA)(r/1 pc)−1 G, for r ≥ rjet (e.g., Begelman et al. 1984; Levinson & Globus 2017; Section 3.1.2). Ultimately, at a large enough cylindrical radius rout, which may lie within the wind, there will be a return current and the outward magnetic stress must be balanced by gas pressure (Begelman et al. 1984). However this pressure will be ∼ (rout /rjet )−2 smaller than the pressure in the jet. As discussed, the galaxy jet is probably directly confined by gas pressure, and in the lobes, in the case of FR-II sources, by the backflow of jet plasma that has passed through the hot spot shock.

Ahhh, gas pressure...pardon my ignorance.

Wait...what? “Jet plasma”?

Confused....
Alternatively, if the wind is hydromagnetic, then the jet may carry an axial current I which supports a toroidal magnetic field

....

Ultimately, at a large enough cylindrical radius rout, which may lie within the wind, there will be a return current and the outward magnetic stress must be balanced by gas pressure

Gas pressure, again.


Again, mainstream struggle with a force free field aligned current.

Why? They roughly just described it to explain colimation.

Oh....hang on...
 
6.1. Toward a Working Model of AGN Jets
Relativistic jets are the conduits that connect supermassive, spinning black holes and their atten- dant disks to their host galaxies and the Universe beyond. They were once seen as exhausts that, like their automotive counterparts, remove excess heat from powerful machines. However, the ob- servations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor. Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high-voltage electrical power, and AGN jets are lossy, glow- ing coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings. This change of viewpoint is supported by observations of selected local AGNs, from which we tentatively generalize to AGNs in general.
Nonetheless, this view suggests causal and testable mechanisms through which the type of AGN that is produced is determined by the black hole mass, spin, gas supply rate, and strength of the magnetic field, which in turn may depend upon the manner by which gas is supplied to the nucleus at Rinf . In particular, it appears that only powerful jets can escape the nucleus as su- personic, relativistic flows. This model also suggests that AGN jets can accelerate protons to EeV energy and that they could be significant sources of high-energy cosmic rays. This further allows jet γ -ray emission to be mostly synchrotron instead of Compton radiation. In toto, AGNs con- tribute to and are constrained by the γ -ray background (Di Mauro et. al. 2018). Understanding the content, power, electrical current, and duty cycles of AGN jets will help quantify their role in galaxy formation and evolution.

However, the ob- servations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor. Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high-voltage electrical power, and AGN jets are lossy, glow- ing coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings. This change of viewpoint is supported by observations of selected local AGNs, from which we tentatively generalize to AGNs in general.


Tucks n rolls....

The Electric Universe....:)
 
Care to discuss mainstream electric universe ideas?

Crickets....

1) What ARE "mainstream electric universe ideas"?

2) How do they differ from the current paradigm?

3) What observations do they explain better than the current paradigm?

4) What evidence exists to support them?

If you can't provide sensible and relevant answers for this, there is nothing to discuss.

Hans
 
Care to discuss mainstream electric universe ideas?

Crickets....

There are no mainstream “electric universe” ideas. It’s all fringe.

There are mainstream ideas about electromagnetism, including at galactic scales, but you aren’t actually trying to discuss any of them. You’re just playing stupid games.
 
1) What ARE "mainstream electric universe ideas"?
Utter nonsense. (We can thank Sol88 for making that so obvious throughout this thread.)

2) How do they differ from the current paradigm?
Notwithstanding any incompleteness and other flaws in the current paradigm, the current paradigm is not utter nonsense.

3) What observations do they explain better than the current paradigm?
None.

4) What evidence exists to support them?
None.

If you can't provide sensible and relevant answers for this, there is nothing to discuss.
The answers I provided above are sensible and relevant, but I'm not seeing how those answers give us anything to discuss. I therefore predict that future discussions in this thread will resemble the past history of this thread.
 
Utter nonsense. (We can thank Sol88 for making that so obvious throughout this thread.)


Notwithstanding any incompleteness and other flaws in the current paradigm, the current paradigm is not utter nonsense.


None.


None.


The answers I provided above are sensible and relevant, but I'm not seeing how those answers give us anything to discuss. I therefore predict that future discussions in this thread will resemble the past history of this thread.

:D:p

Or, we might say that your replies both start and end the discussion.

I am, however naively, hoping that Sol88 might at least give it a try. :rolleyes:

Hans
 
:D:p

Or, we might say that your replies both start and end the discussion.

I am, however naively, hoping that Sol88 might at least give it a try. :rolleyes:

Hans



Black holes are turbines that are spun up by orbiting gas to generate high voltage electrical power and AGN jets are lossy and glowing, coaxial cables that ultimately heat their surroundings.
6.1. Towards a Working Model of AGN Jets

Lets discuss?

How does gas spin up a black hole? How does the spun up BH "generate" high voltage electrical power?
 
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How does gas spin up a black hole?

It can’t and it doesn’t. And your source doesn’t claim it does either.

And even a bit of consideration would show that gas can’t spin up a black hole. There isn’t nearly enough mass in an accretion disk to make any significant change to a black hole’s angular momentum.
 
6.1. Toward a Working Model of AGN Jets
Relativistic jets are the conduits that connect supermassive, spinning black holes and their atten- dant disks to their host galaxies and the Universe beyond. They were once seen as exhausts that, like their automotive counterparts, remove excess heat from powerful machines. However, the ob- servations that we have reviewed suggest a rather different metaphor.

Observation are incorrect?
 
Did you miss this bit?

6.1. Toward a Working Model of AGN Jets

Do you have a working model?
 
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