Electric universe theories here.

[Ziggurat]

Not really

You should be. I mean really, after all these years, and you can’t even multiply. That’s sad.

Are you any good at maths, Ziggurat?

Better than you, though that’s not saying much.

What is the electric field strength required to drive, this kinky jet in particular, over the distances involved?

What makes you think the jet is driven by an electric field?

Couple volts? Few hundred? Just an OOM is fine for now.

You can’t even get the units right. Electric fields are not measured in volts. And no, this isn’t a minor technicality.

 

[Sol88]

You should be. I mean really, after all these years, and you can’t even multiply. That’s sad.

What makes you think the jet is driven by an electric field?
.

It is a bit sad.

What’s makes me think it’s an electric field...

In the peer reviewed paper...

We discuss the possible causes leading to the formation of the observed ‘kink’ feature for the GRG, which include precession of the jet axis, development of instabilities and magnetic reconnection.

Possible causes... I’d like to focus, being somewhat biased, on CURRENT DRIVEN INSTABILITIES.

Plasma at that, funnily enough...

However, almost all of them are on smaller scales (∼ 10 kpc), and not scales of ∼ 100 kpc as in the case of ‘kink’ in the Barbell GRG. The ∼ 100 kpc omega shaped ‘kink’ structure seen on the western side of the ra- dio core is very unique, and a possible example of plasma instability on such a large scale.

Now as far as I can recall, tusenfem is a super duper space plasma physicist, bloody mad maths skills and all.

Is an electric field need more or less to drive a plasma instability? Namely, a kink instability, tusenfem?

 

[Sol88]

And would a “current” such as from the Barbell shaped giant radio galaxy with ∼ 100 kpc kink in the jet be considered, “large”?

In say relation the currents that flow within comet tails, the interaction between the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, the Earth and Sun (and the planets of the solar system).

Does this jet have more, not sure what the mathamagicians term for it is but “ooomph”?

 

[Sol88]

Thanks for the calculation, but it will not help.
If you go back a few years you will find that I put in the same calculation.

Including the electric currents between the moons of Jupiter and Jupiters magnetosphere?

Actually, there quite a few surprises found at the poles of both Jupiter and Saturn...

Electric Jupiter Baffles Astronomers

Straight forward plasma physics? Or some kooky fringe, planets careering around the solar system, shooting lightning bolts tin foil hat pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo for the weak of mind?

 

[Ziggurat]

The jets are mostly neutral, you can't determine the amperage of any current in them from their length. And your source discusses the cause of a kink in the jets, not the source of the jets themselves. And that's primarily magnetic, not electrical. Go look up the strength of the magnetic field involved, and tell me if you think it's large.

 

[Sol88]

Mostly neutral?

The radio jets produced near the central super-massive black holes are collimated by the magnetic field and their collimation requires external confinement (Tomimatsu 1994; Beskin et al. 1998). For the external confinement, the gas pressure profile plays a vital role and hence, influences the jet acceleration and collimation along with the magnetic field configuration.

Like that?

Gas pressure profile, ya reckon?

 

[Sol88]

Yeah, your problem is the jets!

Somehow using magnetic magik they are produced from BH, HH Oject, comets...

Lots of stuff.

So, an ELECTROMAGNETIC source, is driving a current causing plasma instabilities?

Is this interpretation too simplistic, for you Ziggurat? Or do we need math?

 

[Ziggurat]

Mostly neutral?

Yes, mostly neutral. You seem to be confused about how magnetic confinement works.

 

[Sol88]

Not at all.

A Flux tube?

A

Birkeland current

A

Force free field aligned current

Which one in particular are you struggling with?

Mostly plasma, not neutral.

Anyhooo, back to the current driven instability into this jet.

Plasma physics or gas physics first, you pick.

 

[Sol88]

Yes, mostly neutral. You seem to be confused about how magnetic confinement works.

How strong is the current generating the magnetic field?

All bar magnets lined up are they?

 

[Ziggurat]

You keep throwing around term you don't even understand, without actually making a coherent point.

 

[tusenfem]

Now as far as I can recall, tusenfem is a super duper space plasma physicist, bloody mad maths skills and all.

Is an electric field need more or less to drive a plasma instability? Namely, a kink instability, tusenfem?

Can you formulate that in a sensible question, please?

 

[tusenfem]

And would a “current” such as from the Barbell shaped giant radio galaxy with ∼ 100 kpc kink in the jet be considered, “large”?

In say relation the currents that flow within comet tails, the interaction between the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, the Earth and Sun (and the planets of the solar system).

Does this jet have more, not sure what the mathamagicians term for it is but “ooomph”?

Currents do not mean anything in phyiscs, currentdensities are important.

 

[tusenfem]

Including the electric currents between the moons of Jupiter and Jupiters magnetosphere?

Actually, there quite a few surprises found at the poles of both Jupiter and Saturn...

Electric Jupiter Baffles Astronomers

Straight forward plasma physics? Or some kooky fringe, planets careering around the solar system, shooting lightning bolts tin foil hat pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo for the weak of mind?

care to enighten us what is in that boobtube, what the "surprises" are, etc.

 

[jonesdave116]

Including the electric currents between the moons of Jupiter and Jupiters magnetosphere?

Actually, there quite a few surprises found at the poles of both Jupiter and Saturn...

Electric Jupiter Baffles Astronomers

Straight forward plasma physics? Or some kooky fringe, planets careering around the solar system, shooting lightning bolts tin foil hat pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo for the weak of mind?

Care to remind us which of your Velikovskian fruitloops are qualified to understand even basic plasma physics? Thought not. Stick to cave paintings and impossible thunderbolts, there's a good chap.

 

[Sol88]

Currents do not mean anything in phyiscs, currentdensities are important.

Currents do not mean anything in space plasma’s? Only charge seperation?

 

[tusenfem]

Currents do not mean anything in space plasma’s? Only charge seperation?

Showing again your ignorance of plasma physics.
Currents, as in Ampères, don't mean anything in plasma physics
You can have a bezillion Ampères, but if they run through a quazillion square meters they don't do diddly-squat.
Any description of plasmas (check with Alfvén or with Perratt) is done with current densities. So you can have millions of Ampères along Io's flux tube but for any real effects you will have to divide it through the cross section of the tube to get the density.

 

[Ziggurat]

I’d put it a bit differently. Context matters. Scale matters. A current which is large is a terrestrial context can be insignificant on a planetary or galactic scale. Which is how we end up with numbers for Io which look huge without proper context, but turn out to be minuscule in context of the scale of Io.

That’s why quantification matters. But that’s what Sol88 is incapable of doing.

 

[Sol88]

Showing again your ignorance of plasma physics.
Currents, as in Ampères, don't mean anything in plasma physics
You can have a bezillion Ampères, but if they run through a quazillion square meters they don't do diddly-squat.
Any description of plasmas (check with Alfvén or with Perratt) is done with current densities. So you can have millions of Ampères along Io's flux tube but for any real effects you will have to divide it through the cross section of the tube to get the density.

Would you still need a potential difference to drive the current, regardless of density?

quazillion square meters? in a collimated (magnetically confined) plasma?

Such as a flux tube, Birkeland current, force free field aligned current etc etc

Not really fair to call ignorance but a will call confabulation on your behalf, as per usual.

 

[Sol88]

And if there is a current with a potential to drive it, does it not need to flow in a circuit?