DeSantis Martha's Vineyard Stunt

Stacyhs said:
Venezuelans aren't just immigrating to the US, but to many other Latin American countries like Peru and Argentina to escape what's happening in their home country. What makes you think Venezuelan professionals, including lawyers, aren't coming to the US?
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I don't doubt that some are professionals. But with the rates they are arriving at now, and open door now for illegals, I seriously doubt they are mostly professionals. And even if they were, as I say, they are entering illegally. And they are not having to adhere to covid protocols, and they are on the street in 72 hrs, which is not conducive to adequate vetting, imo. Just the sheer numbers suggests that more errors are going to be made, and corners cut.
 
smartcooky said:
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops."
- Stephen Jay Gould
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That's a pretty good quote. There are probably also people working at Burger King who could have been star running backs in the NFL, under different circumstances.

Who cares.
 
Warp12 said:
. . .I don't GAF what you call them now, they are still illegals to me.

I hope if DeSantis does run and get elected in 2024, he is able to get these illegal immigration loopholes closed. This country is under no obligation to make special exceptions for any of these people, no matter what their sob stories may be.
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Oh, please, Warp. We've already established that immigration law has established exceptions in the case of Venezuelans, yet you insist on calling the system "illegal" when the fact is you just don't like it.

But the real matter of concern here is your callous, un-Christian, un-American disregard for the well being of others. Frankly, one loses track of the groups of people upon which you have focused your disrespect and scorn.

If ones follows national trends it's painfully clear that you are just one blob in the fetid little pool that is anti-immigrant sentiment.
 
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smartcooky said:
"I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops."
- Stephen Jay Gould
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Warp12 said:
That's a pretty good quote. There are probably also people working at Burger King who could have been star running backs in the NFL, under different circumstances.

Who cares.
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Not you!
 
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Warp12 said:
I don't doubt that some are professionals. But with the rates they are arriving at now, and open door now for illegals, I seriously doubt they are mostly professionals. And even if they were, as I say, they are entering illegally. And they are not having to adhere to covid protocols, and they are on the street in 72 hrs, which is not conducive to adequate vetting, imo. Just the sheer numbers suggests that more errors are going to be made, and corners cut.
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Who said they were "mostly professionals"? What Covid protocols are they not adhering to? Mask requirements that don't exist in Texas?

If corners are cut and errors made, then I suggest that is not the fault or responsibility of the Venezuelans.

Please stop referring to them as "illegals". Yes, you keep repeating that they entered illegally, but their status is legal once they apply for asylum. As much as you may not like it, it does not change that fact.
 
Stacyhs said:
They are entering illegally but ...
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I can't find anything definitive on this but I'm not convinced that even that much of what Warp12 is claiming is true. As far as I can tell most are entering through Yuma and Del Rio. Those don't seem to be places you go if you're trying to hide. And just because you get arrested doesn't mean you're illegal. They arrest you while they figure that out. And since they are letting most enter the US it would seem to me they were never illegal at any point.

I'm holding off on considering them being illegal at any point ever.
 
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RecoveringYuppy said:
I can't find anything definitive on this but I'm not convinced that even that much of what Warp12 is claiming is true. As far as I can tell most are entering through Yuma and Del Rio. Those aren't places you go if you're trying to hide. And just because you get arrested doesn't mean you're illegal. They arrest you while they figure that out. And since they are letting most enter the US it would seem to me they were never illegal at any point.

I'm holding off on considering them being illegal at any point ever.
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They are entering illegally when they cross the border without going through a border check point/immigration control. Crossing the Rio Grande or climbing over, going through or under the "wall" isn't in any way 'legal'. Hiring a coyote to smuggle them across the border wouldn't be necessary if they could enter legally. But once they turn themselves in to border patrol agents and apply for asylum, they are no longer here illegally.

Tens of thousands of migrants who cross the border illegally from Mexico are released in the United States each month with notices to appear in immigration court to pursue asylum or on humanitarian parole with requirements to report regularly to immigration authorities. Migrants may seek asylum if they enter the country illegally under U.S. and international law, and U.S. authorities have broad authority to grant parole based on individual circumstances.
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https://www.masslive.com/news/2022/...he-us-this-and-other-questions-explained.html
 
Stacyhs said:
They are entering illegally when they cross the border without going through a border check point/immigration control.
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How do we know any of these people bypassed checkpoints?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yuma+border+crossing

That's asylum seekers (and probably others) in line at the border at one of crossing points at Yuma. Those people aren't bypassing a checkpoint. They are lined up waiting to be processed. They weren't sneaking across the border. They were seeking out Border Patrol at the border. It looks ad-hoc to me but it doesn't scream "illegal". It looks like people complying with the law under tough circumstances.

Stacyhs said:
Crossing the Rio Grande or climbing over, going through or under the "wall" isn't in any way 'legal'. Hiring a coyote to smuggle them across the border wouldn't be necessary if they could enter legally.
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The people in the link I supplied didn't swim the Rio Grande or hire coyotes to cross the border. And I'm under the impression the hole in the wall was created by Border Patrol for this purpose.

I'm not convinced that deliberately stopping at the border intending to meet Border Patrol at a place Border Patrol is planning to meet people like you qualifies as "entering illegally". ETA: And I don't see that the people involved in DeSantis' action bypassed checkpoints.
 
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Some posts here remind me of Hitler's "Jews rotting and fermenting in their enclaves and ghettos."

But Hitler also said, "Hate? I invented hate." and to be sure, he was uncommonly good at expressing it.

So I'm only somewhat reminded. Modern thinkers -- well, feelers -- still have work to do before they can equal the Old Master.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
How do we know any of these people bypassed checkpoints?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=yuma+border+crossing

That's asylum seekers (and probably others) in line at the border at one of crossing points at Yuma. Those people aren't bypassing a checkpoint. They are lined up waiting to be processed. They weren't sneaking across the border. They were seeking out Border Patrol at the border. It looks ad-hoc to me but it doesn't scream "illegal". It looks like people complying with the law under tough circumstances.


The people in the link I supplied didn't swim the Rio Grande or hire coyotes to cross the border. And I'm under the impression the hole in the wall was created by Border Patrol for this purpose.

I'm not convinced that deliberately stopping at the border intending to meet Border Patrol at a place Border Patrol is planning to meet people like you qualifies as "entering illegally".
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It is NOT an official immigration checkpoint. It's merely an open point at the border due to the wall being unfinished. Nowhere in that video is it even mildly suggested it was left open by the border patrol.
YUMA, Ariz. (NewsNation Now) — An incomplete border wall that was meant to separate the U.S. and Mexico now acts as an entry point for an estimated 1,000 migrants who enter the country through Yuma, Arizona daily, according to a county supervisor. Under the Biden administration, the wall being constructed along the southern border was never completed. What’s left are at times mileslong stretches of fenceless borderland.
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The couple and their 6-year-old daughter were out of breath when they arrived. Locating drinking water and Border Patrol were their top priorities upon entering the U.S. “I need help. I heard the United States gives political asylum to people,” the man said. “I want to ask for help.” Later that morning, a larger family with a young girl struggled to cross a canal on U.S. soil just beyond the wall. They eventually made it to the other side but were stopped by Border Patrol soon after. Yuma County District 2 Supervisor Jonathan Lines believes the surge of people crossing the Yuma Gap won’t ease up unless the federal government provides more assistance.
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https://www.borderreport.com/hot-to...ants-enter-us-through-incomplete-border-wall/ The people in the link I presented are shown actually crossing the Rio Grande and the use of coyotes.

ETA: And I don't see that the people involved in DeSantis' action bypassed checkpoints.
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They did:

Understand the Migrant Drop-Offs in Martha’s Vineyard

Where were the migrants from? The 48 migrants who were taken from a shelter in San Antonio to Martha’s Vineyard in mid-September are Venezuelans who had crossed the southwest border without authorization and had turned themselves in to border officials; many likely planned to claim asylum. After being taken into custody, they had been released to face future proceedings.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/16/us/politics/migrants-marthas-vineyard.html
 
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RecoveringYuppy said:
Your responses seem to indicate you think I'm claiming no one enters illegally. I'm not claiming that.
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No, I think you're saying that "I'm holding off on considering them being illegal at any point ever," and "That's asylum seekers (and probably others) in line at the border at one of crossing points at Yuma. Those people aren't bypassing a checkpoint. They are lined up waiting to be processed. They weren't sneaking across the border. They were seeking out Border Patrol at the border. It looks ad-hoc to me but it doesn't scream "illegal". It looks like people complying with the law under tough circumstances.
I don't know what I said that would indicate that I think you're claiming that "no one enters illegally".
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Yes, that's correct.
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"Crossed the southwest border without authorization" IS a soft-spun way of saying "entered illegally".

Jesus.

Where were the migrants from? The 48 migrants who were taken from a shelter in San Antonio to Martha’s Vineyard in mid-September are Venezuelans who had crossed the southwest border without authorization and had turned themselves in to border officials; many likely planned to claim asylum. After being taken into custody, they had been released to face future proceedings.
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Warp12 said:
"Crossing the border without authorization" IS a soft-spun way of saying "entered illegally".

Jesus.
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But that is the issue. There is a lot of confusion over these terms and you're not helping since you aren't providing any evidence.

When that person says "without authorization" do they mean "no passport or visa"? If so, that doesn't make the person illegal. That's exactly how a lot of asylum seekers would show up and there are provisions for that.

So can you provide some evidence that will clarify?
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
But that is the issue. There is a lot of confusion over these terms and you're not helping since you aren't providing any evidence.

When that person says "without authorization" do they mean "no passport or visa"? If so, that doesn't make the person illegal. That's exactly how a lot of asylum seekers would show up and there are provisions for that.

So can you provide some evidence that will clarify?
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They entered illegally. That is all that is important. If you feel there is some important distinction to be made, I don't care. There isn't.
 
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