Cont: Trans women are not women (IX)

[Emily's Cat]

And I've FINALLY caught up in this thread! Took a 3 week vacation, and found myself needing another whole week to make to the end!

 

[Steersman]

Okay, now I'm really curious.

1. What makes a person psychologically male or female? What are the psychological hallmarks of a female and of a male?
2. What makes a person emotionally male or female? What are the emotional characteristics of a female and of a male?
3. What makes a person societally male or female? What are the societal indicators of a female and of a male?

I eagerly await your responses.

Kind of a biological essentialist outlook on the part of stanfr - all men are like this, and all women are like that. Lotta people seem to be unclear on the concept of differences - psychological, emotionally, societally - between the "sexes" - on average - but with a great deal of overlap.

Oldish article at 4th Wave Now had a decent illustration of that here:

https://4thwavenow.com/2019/08/19/n...r-thoughts-on-the-concept-of-gender-identity/

Of note though is that graph is apparently something of a composite of a wide range of various psychological traits - some will show smaller values for D, some larger:

And I've FINALLY caught up in this thread! Took a 3 week vacation, and found myself needing another whole week to make to the end!

Such workmanlike dedication and thoroughness! ...

 

[Vixen]

Why is "Marjolein's" happiness more important than the rights, dignity, and safety of females?

Poor logic. Marjolein being happy doesn't ipso facto detract from anyone else's happiness. Unless, of course, YOU want her to be deprived of happiness.

 

[Vixen]

Why are you assuming that this person has had extensive surgery? According to them, they haven't even been on hormones long enough to develop enough breast-like tissue to feel comfortable playing with adult females rather than pubertal females.

And it's their OWN WORDS that using the female changing room (with a bunch of minor females) was "The best gift I could get".

Don't substitute the narrative that you WANT to be true. Wishes aren't reality.

Marjolein was not deliriously happy at the pervy delight of being amongst semi-dressed 15-year-old girls. She was happy to have been accepted as female at last. But someone has to come along - the nasty hack writing for a nasty tabloid - and twist it into something dirty.

It reflects on their own sordid mind.

 

[Vixen]

Why does a male being at risk of male violence in a male prison justify increasing the risk to females by placing males with them against their will?

Wow, how sexist is that? Females can be extremely violent. Violent female offenders think nothing of slashing the object of a rejected sexual advance across the face with a razor blade between the knuckles.

You really buy the quaint Victorian idea that women are passively sexless.

 

[Vixen]

It does NOT assume that they are sexual predators.

It does, however, acknowledge the ******* reality that 99% of all sexual assaults are committed by males, and 95% of the victims of sexual assault are females!

That is because the law set down a couple of centuries ago inherently assumes women are incapable of making sexual advances, wanted or unwanted. Indeed, if a woman commits a crime, the law has it, she must have been under the influence of the male party to the crime.

 

[Vixen]

Okay, now I'm really curious.

1. What makes a person psychologically male or female? What are the psychological hallmarks of a female and of a male?
   
2. What makes a person emotionally male or female? What are the emotional characteristics of a female and of a male?
   
3. What makes a person societally male or female? What are the societal indicators of a female and of a male?

I eagerly await your responses.

Perhaps do some research and study on the subject matter before confidently asserting that your word is final?

 

[Ziggurat]

Perhaps do some research and study on the subject matter before confidently asserting that your word is final?

She asked questions. That's the antithesis of making assertions. If you have answers, provide them. If not, demanding others research what you evidently will not is the height of arrogance.

 

[Vixen]

She asked questions. That's the antithesis of making assertions. If you have answers, provide them. If not, demanding others research what you evidently will not is the height of arrogance.

Why is Emily's Cat asking stanfr those questions if he or she has never considered those issues before?

 

[d4m10n]

Females can be extremely violent. Violent female offenders think nothing of slashing the object of a rejected sexual advance across the face with a razor blade between the knuckles.

What proportion of violent sexual assaults are committed by females in your jurisdiction?

Why is Emily's Cat asking stanfr those questions if he or she has never considered those issues before?

Free advice: It's probably wrong to assume someone has never considered relevant issues in the ninth iteration of a thread topic. There will likely be ample evidence to the contrary for those willing to grep back.

 

[Vixen]

What proportion of violent sexual assaults are committed by females in your jurisdiction?

Well there was the case of Anneli Auer, whose husband was bludgeoned by a mysterious intruder in black. She got off the murder rap as nobody could quite believe a woman could commit such a violent murder. She might well be innocent but the fact remains, police, courts and juries are reluctant to believe women are capable of cold blooded sadistic acts of violence. Biologically, testosterone does make the male of the species more naturally aggressive but it doesn't follow that transgender women are more prone to committing sexual assault.

 

[d4m10n]

Well there was the case of Anneli Auer, whose husband was bludgeoned by a mysterious intruder in black.

n = 1

I asked for a proportion of the whole.

Violent sexual assaults committed by females 
_________________________________________

      Total violent sexual assaults

 

[theprestige]

Why is Emily's Cat asking stanfr those questions if he or she has never considered those issues before?

Stanfr is manifestly new to the thread. EC is asking him to consider some of the important, central questions the rest of us have already considered, and come up with his own answers. Or at least discuss his considerations with the rest of us.

It's pretty much the same thing we're asking of you, for pretty much the same reason.

 

[Steersman]

Marjolein was not deliriously happy at the pervy delight of being amongst semi-dressed 15-year-old girls. She was happy to have been accepted as female at last. But someone has to come along - the nasty hack writing for a nasty tabloid - and twist it into something dirty.

It reflects on their own sordid mind.

But is "she" really a female? Even by the structure-absent-function definitions of Emma Hilton and her merry gang of scientism-ists?

https://twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1207663359589527554

Or is "she" just deluding "herself" and expecting everyone else to play along? And not just "expecting", but "demanding" in no uncertain terms. Rather thuggish at best ...

Wow, how sexist is that? Females can be extremely violent. Violent female offenders think nothing of slashing the object of a rejected sexual advance across the face with a razor blade between the knuckles.

You really buy the quaint Victorian idea that women are passively sexless.

"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned":

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hell-hath-no-fury-like-a-woman-scorned

Or even ones disabused of the rather risible notion that everyone, every member of every anisogamic species, has to have a sex ...

 

[stanfr]

I am a biologist. I have worked in the biological sciences my entire life. I can assure you that the position that there are exactly two sexes and that mammals cannot change the sex their chromosomes code them to be is reality.

Law is irrelevant to this. If Texas (or wherever) can legislate that pi is exactly equal to three, then that demonstrates that one. Viewpoints may vary, but the fact that sex is binary and (in mammals) is immutable remains, irrespective of viewpoints.

I'm seriously tired of people declaring that because some people 3,000 miles away whose political position the speaker (and I) disagree with seem to espouse a position similar to mine on this issue, therefore I shoud accept that I'm wrong. Yes, it's Godwinning the thread, but would you tell vegetarians that they should abandon their position because it just happens to coincide with Hitler's position?

What, are you saying one can analogize Jews to carnivores?? You are seriously confused, Rolfe. I tend to agree with the statement that "sex is immutable and binary" but I don't think it is as black and white as you would like it to believe. I see a distinct difference for example between chromosomal 'anomalies' (XXXY, XXY etc...) and whether someone has 10 fingers or 11...there is a whole thread devoted to the topic and you'd think it would have ended after one day if it were so cut and dry. But that doesn't even begin to address the related subjects of sexual ambiguity, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity and how social policy deals with the same.

 

[stanfr]

Do you think there's a similar "medical consensus" about body integrity identity? That all human beings have a body identity—the number of limbs or other anatomical features the individual knows themself to have?

That's a false dichotomy, and it still fails to address policy arguments. I've been waiting (and waiting...and waiting) for proof that changes in law will result in higher incidences of assault or whatever by trans individuals....still no evidence.

 

[stanfr]

Is it a correlation or is it just that "Trumpists" have no reason to pretend that men can be women? It would be the same if the "progressive" fad of the day was based on the assertion that trees are actually mushrooms.

The correlation is EVIDENCE! Trumpets deny evidence because it doesn't suit their ideology. It indicates bias. I have been waiting (and waiting) for evidence that the policy of trans inclusion is detrimental to women, and I haven't seen it yet.

The idea of 'pretending' to be women is a red herring. I think if you told any trans individual they were 'pretending' to be the 'other' sex they might punch you in the face. And I might cheer them on.

 

[stanfr]

"They think one day people can just decide they are this or that. But it’s a feeling you feel deep down, that this is what I am. It is not a choice."

I still think Body Integrity Identity Disorder is the closest and most instructive parallel.

Well since you see it as a 'disorder'--can it be reversed? Should it be reversed?

 

[stanfr]

“I’d do anything to be a boy,” he says. “I get injections to be a boy, but I hate injections. I’m going to go this far just to be me. Some people think that being LGBTQ+ is a choice, that one day we wake up and say, ‘I think I’m trans, I think I’m a boy and I’m just going to become a boy.’ They think one day people can just decide they are this or that. But it’s a feeling you feel deep down, that this is what I am. It is not a choice.”​

Also because children do not talk like that off their own bat. Somebody else suggested those words. And up until around 5 - 6 years old, a high percentage of children think that stereotypes are what determine whether a child is a boy or a girl (e.g. a boy who puts on a dress turns into a girl). It's up to adults to help educate them out of this, not reinforce stereotypical thinking.

Did you bother to read the article? He was 13 when he made that statement. I don't know about you But I didn't parrot 'suggestions' when I was 13...
ETA: he was talking about an incident when he was younger (9?) but he was talking from the perspective of being 13.

 

[stanfr]

Ah, there's another one I brought up on about page 2 of the very first thread.

There hasn't been an answer to it yet, and I know why. They are exactly the same thing.

"I hate my penis" = "I hate my left leg"

Both you and Prestige are seriously confused. It's almost as though you've been convinced (probably by George Soros) that women have two legs and men have one.