Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
The only one denying the truth here is you, heydarian.
The Supernatural Part II
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
- Start date
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Hey, Saeed, how about that prediction?
So far, you only have (to be overly generous) a hypothesis. You need to test it.
Your hypothesis is that the Quran contains as yet undiscovered scientific knowledge. If this is the case, you should be able to provide a testable prediction based on this undiscovered knowledge.
Come on, demonstrate that you aren’t merely retrofitting the Quran to your own [mis]understanding of current science. Give us a testable prediction.
So far, you only have (to be overly generous) a hypothesis. You need to test it.
Your hypothesis is that the Quran contains as yet undiscovered scientific knowledge. If this is the case, you should be able to provide a testable prediction based on this undiscovered knowledge.
Come on, demonstrate that you aren’t merely retrofitting the Quran to your own [mis]understanding of current science. Give us a testable prediction.
So you cannot answer any of the questions. You have no answers.
It's a fact that all of your claims are denied and rejected by all of published science.
And that is the end for your claims of science in the Quran
You are not in any position to "warn" anyone here. And it is an arrogant big-headed disgrace that you should even try to warn people here.
You have made the claim here about Hawking at least 50 times before, and you are a liar … Hawking has never published any papers claiming that modern science is shown in a 7th century Quran … and he has never claimed that science has ever found any evidence of a God.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Please provide the published, peer-reviewed papers showing the existence of hell, and the measurement of its temperature.
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,812
Rubbish, utter bunk, you are delusional. I have schizophrenia and they call me delusional, but compared with you I have a rational mind.
The Quran says the sun and the moon each swim in an orbit, and it is absolutely obvious to me, even without the hadith that it is saying the sun orbits the earth...
Just like it says over and over again that the heaven and earth were created in six of Gods days (and one of Gods days is a thousand years). Which is stolen from the bible. The following is my writing on the matter, I may have posted it before but I want to remind you of the obvious. The quran is largely plagiarism from the bible.
The quran says that the heaven and earth were created in six days. Muslims claim that the Arabic for word day can mean an
undetermined amount of time. But I suggest this makes no difference, as The bible was written in Aramaic, and Hebrew, then translated into Greek and then into English. So it does not matter that the word for Arabic day is obscure, because it is clear that the quran is copying the bible on the matter of the six days of creation, and the bible also says that a day in the sight of God is as a thousand years to us. This means that both the bible and the quran are saying that God created the heaven and earth in six thousand years. As this is obviously not the case, I put it to you that the real source of the creation myth as it appears in the quran is the bible.
We know the universe has existed for around fourteen billion years,
and we have hubble space telescope pictures of the edge of the universe to prove it.
We also know that the age of the earth is around four billion years, so we know that the universe existed for ten billion years before the earth was formed. We also know that the earth is made of atoms that were formed in the first stars, and ejected into space after they exploded. So planets could not even have been created for the first few billion years of the universe, because there were no heavy atoms in existence. So the bible is wrong and the quran exactly repeats this mythology.
Quran, surah 7.54 Lo! your Lord is Allah who created the heavens and the earth in six days.
Quran, surah 10.3 Lo! your Lord is Allah who created the heaven and earth in six days.
Quran, surah 11.7 And He it is. Who created the heavens and the earth in six days.
Quran, surah 25.59 Who created the heaven and earth and all that is between them in six days.
Quran, surah 50.38 And surely We created the heaven and earth, and all that is between them, in six days.
Quran, surah 57.4 He it is Who created the heaven and earth in six days.
Quran, surah 22.47 A day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.
Quran, surah 32.4 Allah it is who created the heaven and earth, and that which is between them, in six days. The he mounted the throne. You have not beside him a protecting friend or mediator. Will you not then remember?
Quran, surah 32.5 He directs the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascends unto him, in a day whereof the measure is a thousand years of that you reckon.
Here are the bible sources for these texts.
Bible, Genesis 1.31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Bible 2Peter 3.8 But beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is as with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
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At that temperature anything material would dissolve into formless quark-gluon plasma instantaneously. Which is nothing to worry about after death, as it's equivalent to nonexistence, which atheists expect after death anyhow. But if one were to continue to exist as a soul or spirit, why would the temperature (the movement of particles of matter) make any difference to an immaterial being?
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Yes, it is ominous - for you.
You think that by coming here and debating 'disbelievers' your beliefs will be strengthened, but you are actually weakening them. Every time we destroy one of your arguments a seed of doubt is planted in your mind. Each time you post here these doubts will grow, eventually reaching a tipping point where you 'suddenly' lose your faith. This would be a very dangerous outcome for you.
But there one way you can avoid it - stop posting here.
It is my human duty to warn you. The choice is yours.
malbui
Beauf
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 4,688
Something I've never quite understood. There's a good argument to be made that around 1000 CE Baghdad was the intellectual capital of the European and Middle Eastern part of the world. Learning was prized and in particular a great deal of Greek science and philosophy had been preserved and further developed there.
Since then, what advances have emerged from the Muslim world? I'd have thought that if everything was written down in the Quran and simply needed to be implemented - and there was no language barrier - then over the last thousand years every medical, scientific and engineering problem would have been solved.
Odd, really.
Since then, what advances have emerged from the Muslim world? I'd have thought that if everything was written down in the Quran and simply needed to be implemented - and there was no language barrier - then over the last thousand years every medical, scientific and engineering problem would have been solved.
Odd, really.
It is very silly of you to keep saying "and it is the truth" and saying "and nobody can deny, and is Fact" etc. Anyone here can just as easily say the same thing to you ...
... "And it is the Truth that your Quran claims are all proved wrong" ..." And it is a Fact and everyone accepts that the Quran is a book of untrue uneducated fiction" ... "Stop denying the scientifically proven Truth Heydarian".
Why are you so completely unable to give an honest answer to any of the questions that I asked you? ...
... Surah 50 verses 16, 17, 18 do not mention DNA or evolution, do they? The answer is that they certainly do not, and that actually IS a "Fact" ... there is not one word there about any DNA or any Evolution ... so why did you repeatedly claim that it is all there in "beautiful Explicit detail" ... why are you lying about that in every post? Do you really not know how to tell the truth?
So far you have not produced a single verse from the Quran with any description of modern science at all ... why can you never produce any verse that actually describes any modern science? ... you keep claiming that you have thousands of such verses, but you can never produce even one such verse!
Why can't you produce even one genuine peer-reviewed science research paper that claims to find any evidence of God? ..., or claims to find any evidence that a 7th century Quran contains scientific revelations from God? …
… where are the genuine science papers with genuine evidence? Why can't you ever produce them? … there should be tens of thousands of them published every year! Where are they?
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Trakar
Penultimate Amazing
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- Oct 20, 2007
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Actually much the same could be said of early Christianity, the problem with both Christianity and Islam, was a strong political merging with a resurgence in fundamentalism, ...and that has happened again, quite modernly, with "christianity."
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,812
NO! IT IS NOT.
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,812
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. If God is the author of the Quran he is a mumbling, semi literate savage.
As you know unlike most posters here I believe in God. But my God is an infinite ocean of consciousness who waits for us to evolve to perfection over countless lifetimes. Not a savage monster who burns people who do not believe in Muhammad in eternal hellfire.
You have said somewhere that you do not believe in the terrible verses of hellfire in the Quran even though you claim it is Gods words. So what dangers are you warning us about?
Little 10 Toes
Master Poster
Who is "Our"?
Who is "we"?
Who is "we"? And why didn't you bring it up? You specifically said that there were only two superpowers. Who cares if they're pagan or not.
No. As previously mentioned, there were three. Why do you purposely make this error?
Who is "we"?
Who is "our"?
How about you get your facts right and stop muddying up the water with your lies?
Here are your two "reasons" why you did not think of the Tang Dynasty.(Post has been re-edited to correctly use punctuation)
You obviously have not read history.
Simple research.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello
How do you understand the truth? What is your definition of truth? And how do you know that I am distorting the truth according to your definition?!!??
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
The process for discovering how the world works is:
1. Make observations
2. Form an hypothesis to explain the observations
3. Test the hypothesis
4. If the hypothesis is not disproved it is supported but not proved, so continue to make observations and test
5. Eventually an hypothesis will be sufficiently supported that there is a consensus it can be moved to the status of theory, at which point it is accepted as correct until and unless a better theory eventually emerges
It is not:
1. Decide what you want to believe
2. Cherry pick, misinterpret and misrepresent as required in order to justify that belief to yourself (though to no one else who hasn't also decided to believe it)
The truth you are denying is that the process you are using is of no use whatsoever in discovering how the world actually works.
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heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello
"We" years before you study the Chinese Tang Empire. we have read And we have had a political analysis for it. Of course, this topic was done by an expert and doctorate in religions and history from Sorbonne University. who is one of our proud compatriots. And I have researched and investigated by studying his works about 32 years ago.
"We" use the collective pronoun with full power when our studies and researches have a collective and complete aspect. I have mentioned this before. Unfortunately, you entered our discussion late or you forgot.
to see
This way of evaluating and checking someone's words is a waste of time. And you do not reach a conclusion. This is an example of muddy water fishing. You will not get fish.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello
We accept your scientific models for proving scientific facts. But our speech is not a proof of scientific truth. pay attention. Rather, we say that in the Quran, this subject of modern science was claimed 14 centuries ago. And it has been proven in the 20th century. Therefore, the words of the Qur'an and the claims of God are only correct and true in the Qur'an.
1- Our goal is to believe the truth.
2- Interpretation of the Qur'an requires relatively complete knowledge of various sciences. And we have how about you? But apparently you don't have it.
3- We do not speak to discover "the truth of how the world works through the verses of the Qur'an". pay attention. Rather, according to the up-to-date and correct interpretation of the Qur'an, "the truth of how the world works was revealed in the verses of the Qur'an 14 centuries ago" and it has been claimed. And in the 20th century, this claim of God is only proven
has been That's all we're talking about. And this is true. And it makes perfect sense. You deny it only because the text of the Quran is old, which is 14 centuries ago. And this is a pure mistake. Please be reasonable.
You have repeatedly claimed that Surah 50, verses 16, 17 and 18 describes DNA and Evolution so clearly that it is "Beautifully Explicit" detail ... but the truth is that there is not one single word there about DNA or evolution ... that's a blatant lie for you to keep making claims like that about any verses in the Quran
You keep saying that the Quran is known to be definitely the word of God and you say that is "fact and cannot be denied" ... but that's a blatant lie - it is not a "fact" that a God exists or that he said anything in any Quran at all ... that is only a religious Islamic belief ... and it's also a belief without any evidence - if there was any evidence at all of God, then worldwide science would have reported it and described it all hundreds of years ago ... but in all of science, which means tens of thousands of detailed research papers every year, there is not a single one that finds any evidence at all of any God or any science in the Quran ... so that's a blatant and proven lie for you to keep saying that!
What you could say, and what people here would not criticise so strongly, is that it is simply your belief that God exists and your belief that science is in some sense hinted at in certain words of the Quran, ie a belief from you that the words might mean something about science (despite the fact that the words do not mention any such science) ... if you said that you simply believed various religious claims, then people here, or anywhere, would probably just say you are entitled to your religious beliefs even though science has shown that such beliefs are merely unfounded ancient superstitions.
It's an attempted lie by avoidance and obfuscation by you when instead of answering key fundamental questions, such as when I ask you why you cannot produce real science research papers that say they have evidence of God and evidence of science revealed in the Quran, instead of openly and clearly admitting that you have no such support from published science and admitting that those papers would certainly exist in their tens of thousands if your claims of science in the Quran were true, you avoid the question entirely and entirely avoid the fact that science shows that no such sign of any God has ever been found - you either refuse to reply at all on those ”facts” of published science, or else you reply with a whole page of preaching about how wonderful God is and how wonderful the Quran is, and without ever acknowledging that all of science clearly rejects all of your God-claims.
You also told us that you are a great world expert professor of Quran translation and interpretation … but that is a lie isn't it!? You do not have any higher university qualifications in translating and explaining ancient religious texts, do you! You are simply a religious Islamic fanatic whose whole life is consumed by religious belief in Islam, and you have therefore spent a lot of your own private time convincing yourself that the so-called “Ijaz” literature (which has claimed science in the Quran since the 1970's) is true. This is simply a case of you being like hundreds of thousands of Muslims today who believe the claims of ijaz for science in the Quran.
You also told us that you are not a religious extremist, you told us you were a moderate who does not support religious wars or violence etc., and you pointed to your previous avatar photo saying “look I dress like you and I am a modern Muslim etc.”, but recently you changed that photo to a photo that is clearly not real and is heavily changed by “photoshop” editing, to make yourself look younger and more like a normal Westernised non-extreme religious fanatic, and you have drawn our attention to that new photo-shopped fake photo saying that it shows how normal you are … but the photo is cleanly a fake and not real! Listen - nobody cares if you present a photo/avatar that is of someone else or which is changed/edited etc., but we do care when you are telling us to look at your photo as proof that you are a rational westernised Muslim making rational educated statements about God and the Quran … because your avatar-photo is so clearly a dishonest fake! ...
... and for example - although you have insisted that you are a non-violent moderate in your religious beliefs, and you keep saying that you “love us all” and how you want to help us all etc etc., in fact you also keep threatening everyone here that God will burn us all in Hell, and you think that God is right t do that to us because you say God is always right and never makes any mistakes! So that is a blatant and quite violent threatening piece of untruth from you again.
There are literally hundreds of untrue “lying” things like that which you have posted here repeatedly.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
That is your hypothesis, yes, that knowledge can appear in books centuries before it was discovered. That is an hypothesis about how the world works. That hypothesis requires the same standard of evidence as any other hypothesis to be seriously considered. The process to find that evidence is the first one I gave, not the second one, which is the one you are using. You can provide no objective evidence to support your hypothesis, therefore it is dismissed.
The Qu'ran contains the knowledge and understanding of modern science we would expect it to contain, i.e. none whatever. Your attempts to show otherwise fail abysmally, so your hypothesis is not supported. It seems the world doesn't work like that.
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