The Supernatural Part II

[heydarian saeed]

What about Tang Dynasty China?

Not
In the 7th century, the prominent world superpowers were only "Pers" and "Rome". Please read more about the history.

 

[Pixel42]

Hello, dear philosopher
I ignore your baseless insults.

Valid criticisms of your claims and arguments are not baseless insults.

This is a baseless insult:

Basically, you disbelievers base your thoughts on denying the truth.

So is this:

You, dear philosopher, have an unnecessary prejudice even in scientific judgment and simple and easily understandable topics.

And this:

I hope you raise your level of thinking.

Your baseless insults, like your baseless claims, are dismissed with pity.

 

[IanS]

Hello, dear philosopher
I ignore your baseless insults. Do not be too extreme. I am a Persian speaker, but the simple translation of your words is completely understandable to me. And my English answers will answer your questions exactly. Basically, you disbelievers base your thoughts on denying the truth. And this is quite obvious. But you said for my degree and yourself and others in this forum. I acknowledged your article at the beginning. Unfortunately, you entered our discussions late. And that's why you didn't hear. Besides, I am not illiterate. And I have a technical engineering degree from the most prestigious university in Iran. The debates of modern science in the Qur'an and its understanding require relatively complete research and investigation. which i have done And it does not require a doctorate degree. I am a Quran scholar and I am proud.
You, dear philosopher, have an unnecessary prejudice even in scientific judgment and simple and easily understandable topics. I'm sorry.
I hope you raise your level of thinking.
thank you

I did not enter this thread "late" - I have looked at & read the early posts from when you first started the thread on 1st August 2021, and my first post was on 2nd September 2021 … so I've been posting here for almost the entirety of that whole of the last year for which you have been preaching your Islamic beliefs here. On top of which, it's completely irrelevant as to how much you posted before I started to reply to you.

English is not your main language, and you do not understand English very well. And your engineering degree from Iran, is not remotely teaching you essential core fundamental science... let alone published science research in physics, chemistry and biology.

And you are NOT, as you told us, an important renowned professor of ancient Islamic translations.

Published science does not agree with you does it!? The answer is No, .. it does not!

There is no peer-reviewed physics, chemistry or biology that reports any sign of a God revealing modern science in any copy of the Quran. Do you accept & agree with that? If you disagree, then you must produce all the papers that claim evidence of modern science revealed by God in a Quran ... there should be tens of thousands of such papers ... and so far you have to failed to produce even ONE!

If it's not in the real peer-reviewed science papers, then it is rejected by all of real science research.

Q1. ... Where are the actual research papers please?


Darwin told the world about Evolution in 1859, but when did YOU first calim to find evolution in the Quran? Was that before 1859, or did you only make that claim 100 years after Darwin?

Q2. what was the first date at which YOU ever told anyone that the Quran described evolution?

Q3. what was the first date when YOU ever told anyone that the Quran described DNA?

Q4. what was the first date when YOU ever told anyone that the Quran reported the Big Bang?

Even your own translations of what you claim to be scientific verses, actually never mention any DNA or any Big Bang or any Evolution or Abiogenesis or any Relativity & Gravity or any Quantum subatomic particle-fields, do they!! And to save you from lying about it (lying for your faith and for your belief in Allah), the honest answer is "NO!"; no they do not mention any of those things.

 

[Scorpion]

Heydarian, in post 24 I proved Muhammad thought the sun orbits the earth, using his own words from a reputable hadith. Are you going to continue to ignore this.?

 

[IanS]

Hello, dear philosopher
I ignore your baseless insults.

You would find less insulting replies if you actually answered the questions.

Over the last few pages you were insisting that Surah 50 verses 16, 17 & 18 "explicitly" and "beautifully" described DNA and human evolution. But that is simply dishonest from you isn't it! There is nothing at all in those verses that mentions any DNA or any evolution, not a single word there about any such thing.

Here are those verses -

https://quran.com/qaf

50:16. Indeed, it is We Who created humankind and fully know what their souls whisper to them, and We are closer to them than their jugular vein.

50:17. As the two recording-angels — one sitting to the right, and the other to the left — note everything

50:18. not a word does a person utter without having a vigilant observer ready to write it down.


You can find many links for those verses, some with very sightly different wording, but in every case the sentences are effectively the same as the above.

There is not a single word there about any DNA or any mention whatsoever of evolution. And yet you claim to read those same words, and insist to everyone that it is actually “Explicit' and “beautifully” so in describing DNA and Evolution … when you say “beautifully Explicit” you are claiming that it is absolutely clear and unmistakable to anyone … that's what the words of your own claim means … but the truth is the absolute 100% opposite of what you keep claiming … the truth is that what you claim in those words, is just not mentioned there at all!

That is a massive, and repeated (you have repeated it here for hundreds of verses in the Quran) piece of self-delusion and self-dishonesty from you (you cannot even tell the truth to yourself!), which you are constantly producing because of your extreme religious infatuation with preaching Islam and the Quran. You are an extreme religious fanatic who has lost all ability to tell the difference between truth and lies even for your own thoughts!

Many pages back, closer to the start of this thread you insisted that the biblical story of Noah was literally and certainly all true, and you insisted that he lived to be over 900 years old … according to you he was over 600 years old when he single-handedly build an enormous sea-going ship! I just bring that up because it's such a clear example of how monumentally deluded and quite crazy your religious fanaticism has made you … “you”, ie a person/anyone, would have to be utterly mad and insane to believe that story of a 900 year old Noah … and yet you have been here insisting that such stories from the bible, repeated in your Quran, must actually be true. That is crazy … really … that is a decent into religious madness to believe & preach things like that.

Repeat - you would find the replies to you here, less insulting if you were more honest & objective in your answers rather than repeatedly preaching & insisting that such things must be true because you can find them in an ancient religious book written 1500 years ago by men (not by any God), at a time of educational and sceintific ignornace when the people believed all sorts of superstitions and myths ... which in the case of the Quran, were actually very clearly just copies of what had been written and believed in much earlier religioins such as the Judaism of the old testament bible).

 

[Crossbow]

ِHello
Welcome to our discussion
You see the appearance of cases. And therefore you judge. that you say; God should have sent the Qur'an in different languages ​​or in a language that everyone could understand. It is apparently true. But I recommend you read the history of the 7th century to understand how the world was. I'm just pointing out; Two pagan superpowers only existed in the world in the seventh century. One Persian and one Roman. Between these two superpowers, there have been Arab nations in Saudi Arabia. And they have not been mentioned in any way. God sent his prophet Muhammad in this land and revealed his unique book of Quran to him for all the people of the world. And in less than half a century, the Arab people of Arabia conquered and defeated both superpowers of the world. History says this. This is how God shows his power. This is from God's infinite wisdom and ability.
Only God shows his strength and ability through the weakest nations and tribes. There is no power and knowledge beyond the power and knowledge of God alone.
I have only mentioned a part of the history of the 7th century. You yourself read the history of the seventh century of the world and then judge.
In addition, voicing, punctuation, marking for the Qur'an is one of the side effects. The essence of God's unique word is in the Qur'an. And God's wisdom was to reveal it in the land of Arabia, which was not mentioned at all in the seventh century. And with these, he defeated the two infidel superpowers of the world. History says this.
Thanks

You are wrong again.

If your God is actually a god who gives a hoot about us humans, then your god would have been much more forthcoming with his wisdom.

However, according to your own accounts, your God only spoke one language, and that speaking was done to a very small number of humans some 1400 years ago.

Therefore, even if your God is actually a god, then it is quite apparent that your God really does not give a hoot about us mere humans.

At any rate, you have consistently failed to provide any objective evidence to support your contention that your God does actually exist.

As a result, I (and many others here on the Forum), have concluded that your God is just another one of those god myths that us humans have created over many thousands of years.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

So, if your holy book is a scientific text, why is the Islamic world scientifically so behind the west?

Or are they hiding their advanced technology like Nuclear Fusion and Interstellar space capabilities á la Wakanda?

 

[Pixel42]

It's been pointed out before that none of the scientific discoveries heydarian imagines are predicted in the Qu'ran were actually made by anyone likely to have read it. So even if there were any truth to his delusions (which of course there isn't) it would be hard to see the point of the exercise.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Not
In the 7th century, the prominent world superpowers were only "Pers" and "Rome". Please read more about the history.

China has, for the greater part of its history, been the world superpower. China was economically, technologically and militarily some way ahead of any other world power, Rome and Persia included.
Now, are you denying that Tang Dynasty China was powerful, or simply denying it existed at all? If it is the former, you need more than 'not' as evidence. Right now, it seems like you are the one who needs to read more about history.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Not
In the 7th century, the prominent world superpowers were only "Pers" and "Rome". Please read more about the history.

You don't get to tell us to read more history after getting so much of it so wrong.

 

[heydarian saeed]

China has, for the greater part of its history, been the world superpower. China was economically, technologically and militarily some way ahead of any other world power, Rome and Persia included.
Now, are you denying that Tang Dynasty China was powerful, or simply denying it existed at all? If it is the former, you need more than 'not' as evidence. Right now, it seems like you are the one who needs to read more about history.

Hi
We know that the empire of the Tang dynasty of China was contemporary with the two world superpowers of" Persia" and "Rome" in the 7th century. From the first half of the 6th century to the first half of the 9th century. But for two reasons, we do not consider this empire to be a global superpower in the 7th century, on par with Persia and Rome. First; This empire has just started and has no special history before this. Please read the history. The Sassanid dynasty, which is the world superpower of Persia in the 7th century. In the continuation of the Achaemenid dynasty, they were from the 5th century BC. And since then, the superpower has been ignorance. Also, the superpower of Eastern Rome, which continued the global power of Rome centuries before Christ. Secondly; The Tang Empire was in the territory of China in the 7th century. We don't see history of Tang China expanding beyond China's borders until at least the 7th century.
Therefore, we know two world superpowers in the 7th century AD.
Please read the date more carefully. And have a correct analysis to draw a correct conclusion.
In this field, apart from studying authentic historical books, I have consulted in this field with a doctorate in religions and history from Sorbonne University. I have also read his books.
Thank you for your comments about my content.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Hi
We know that the empire of the Tang dynasty of China was contemporary with the two world superpowers of" Persia" and "Rome" in the 7th century. From the first half of the 6th century to the first half of the 9th century.

Well, 'we' know now, now that I've told you. You had no idea that empire existed before that.

But for two reasons, we do not consider this empire to be a global superpower in the 7th century, on par with Persia and Rome. First; This empire has just started and has no special history before this. Please read the history.

You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you're talking about, do you? Are you also not aware of the dynasties that preceded the Tang? Do you think the Tang suddenly appeared out of nowhere. This is truly comical ignorance.

Secondly; The Tang Empire was in the territory of China in the 7th century. We don't see history of Tang China expanding beyond China's borders until at least the 7th century.

We don't see China expanding beyond its borders now, either. Are you saying that, just because China has not yet invaded Taiwan, it is not a global superpower?
Additionally, China's borders have expanded and contracted throughout its history. The Tang Dynasty considerably expanded those borders. Once again, you are talking from a position of total ignorance.

In this field, apart from studying authentic historical books, I have consulted in this field with a doctorate in religions and history from Sorbonne University. I have also read his books.
Thank you for your comments about my content.

Name and email address for this claimed academic authority, please.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian, in post 24 I proved Muhammad thought the sun orbits the earth, using his own words from a reputable hadith. Are you going to continue to ignore this.?

hello scorpion
The source of such a hadith is not authentic from the Prophet or Shiite imams. I told you before. Unfortunately, you are forgetful. The Prophet did not say Hadith without God's permission. God's knowledge is limitless. Read the Quran to understand that God has told the modern science of the 20th century in several verses. And I have told you examples of it. Completely valid and correct. The rotation of the earth around the sun is in the Quran. The Prophet never said a hadith contrary to the Qur'an. Or you are lying. Or the source of the hadith is invalid and false. Please do more research.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Well, 'we' know now, now that I've told you. You had no idea that empire existed before that.



You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you're talking about, do you? Are you also not aware of the dynasties that preceded the Tang? Do you think the Tang suddenly appeared out of nowhere. This is truly comical ignorance.




We don't see China expanding beyond its borders now, either. Are you saying that, just because China has not yet invaded Taiwan, it is not a global superpower?
Additionally, China's borders have expanded and contracted throughout its history. The Tang Dynasty considerably expanded those borders. Once again, you are talking from a position of total ignorance.



Name and email address for this claimed academic authority, please.

Hello
Our research is done. We do not refer to content that we do not see the need for. Even if you did not mention Tang China, we would have said the same thing. There were only two world superpowers in the 7th century. But you brought up the issue of this empire and we explained and told our reasons to clarify the minds. Our words are the same. You cannot catch fish from this muddy water that you are making, dear philosopher. Please do not repeat and be clear.
Thank you

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Hello
Our research is done. We do not refer to content that we do not see the need for. Even if you did not mention Tang China, we would have said the same thing. There were only two world superpowers in the 7th century. But you brought up the issue of this empire and we explained and told our reasons to clarify the minds. Our words are the same. You cannot catch fish from this muddy water that you are making, dear philosopher. Please do not repeat and be clear.
Thank you

You didn't do any research, and please don't tell me to stop posting: you are not in charge here.
Doubling down on your ignorance of world history does not then make you correct. There were at least 3 world superpowers in the 7th century: this is a matter of undeniable historical fact.
(One could also add the Mayans to that list, btw, as they were the dominant power in the Americas at that time.)

 

[Roger Ramjets]

God's knowledge is limitless.

That's true. But God is supernatural, which means He doesn't exist. Limitless imaginary knowledge is not useful.

 

[IanS]

hello scorpion
The source of such a hadith is not authentic from the Prophet or Shiite imams. I told you before. Unfortunately, you are forgetful. The Prophet did not say Hadith without God's permission. God's knowledge is limitless. Read the Quran to understand that God has told the modern science of the 20th century in several verses. And I have told you examples of it. Completely valid and correct. The rotation of the earth around the sun is in the Quran. The Prophet never said a hadith contrary to the Qur'an. Or you are lying. Or the source of the hadith is invalid and false. Please do more research.

You have not produced any verses with modern science.

What you have done is produce entirely ordinary verses with words like right & left, and claim that means DNA. It does not mean DNA ... it does not mention DNA ... does not say anything remotely like that.

You have never produced even one single verse with anything at all about any modern science.

You believe the ordinary words mean science, because you see God and religion everywhere in everything, even though it's clearly and definitely not there.

You are doing exactly what devout Christians do when they also claim to find God in absolutely everything. They claim that everything around us in the world is certainly all intelligently designed, and like you they stupidly claim that as a fact. But the natural world around us is not "designed", and science has long ago shown how and why none of that is actually "designed" ...

... you are doing the exact same thing - you see scientific evidence of God in entirely ordinary non-scientific words in the Quran. The reason why you do that is the same as the Christians - you are so religiously deluded that you have convinced yourself that evidence of God is everywhere.

Please produce any verse from the Quran that clearly and unarguable describes modern-day science (i.e. something that was not known or easily guessed in the 7th century) ... just produce any verse you like ... I just showed you the 3 verses from Surah 50 where there is certainly no mention of any DNA or evolution.

You are "seeing" imaginary visions, and frankly that is certainly a sign of dangerous religious delusional madness.

Your religious fanaticism is also so extreme, that you are not capable of an honest conversation, either here or anywhere else. When you are faced with a difficult question, such as when I have asked you why you cannot find even one genuine science paper that claims to have found evidence that God revealed science in the Quran, your response to that is either to completely refuse to reply or answer, or else to reply with a long page of preaching about how wonderful you think God and the Quran are …. that is not an honest answer or honest response …

… the honest fact is that the reason why there are no science papers making any such claim, is that all of real published science shows why your claims & beliefs are entirely untrue.

You have to be more honest here if you want to make any progress at all. But your extreme religion is preventing you from facing the honest truth.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Hello
Our research is done. We do not refer to content that we do not see the need for. Even if you did not mention Tang China, we would have said the same thing. There were only two world superpowers in the 7th century. But you brought up the issue of this empire and we explained and told our reasons to clarify the minds. Our words are the same. You cannot catch fish from this muddy water that you are making, dear philosopher. Please do not repeat and be clear.
Thank you

How can there be a "World Super Power" that does not include huge chunks of the planet? You know like China, India, Africa and South America? I may have a very Eurocentric background but at least I can recognize that there is a very big world out there that I only know a little about.

 

[heydarian saeed]

It's been pointed out before that none of the scientific discoveries heydarian imagines are predicted in the Qu'ran were actually made by anyone likely to have read it. So even if there were any truth to his delusions (which of course there isn't) it would be hard to see the point of the exercise.

Hi
There are no illusions in our Qur'anic attributions. Citing the verses of the Quran to discover modern science in the 7th century, which is mentioned in the Quran, is the truth. Unfortunately, you are unable to understand the facts. Because the basis of "disbelief" is denying the truth. God has no need for you and all the unbelievers of the world to understand the Quranic truths. His knowledge is limitless. With this completely wrong approach, you will only stabilize your position in "Saqr Hell". There, its fuel is nuclear interactions and the release of fundamental particles. The temperature is 10 to the power of 22 degrees Celsius. Can you tolerate this temperature? Unlikely. I am watching your place in the hereafter in the hell of Saqr and I see that you will stay there forever.
All my words in this message are not just you pixels. Rather, it is all the disbelievers of the world.
I am really sorry for your fate.

 

[heydarian saeed]

You have not produced any verses with modern science.

What you have done is produce entirely ordinary verses with words like right & left, and claim that means DNA. It does not mean DNA ... it does not mention DNA ... does not say anything remotely like that.

You have never produced even one single verse with anything at all about any modern science.

You believe the ordinary words mean science, because you see God and religion everywhere in everything, even though it's clearly and definitely not there.

You are doing exactly what devout Christians do when they also claim to find God in absolutely everything. They claim that everything around us in the world is certainly all intelligently designed, and like you they stupidly claim that as a fact. But the natural world around us is not "designed", and science has long ago shown how and why none of that is actually "designed" ...

... you are doing the exact same thing - you see scientific evidence of God in entirely ordinary non-scientific words in the Quran. The reason why you do that is the same as the Christians - you are so religiously deluded that you have convinced yourself that evidence of God is everywhere.

Please produce any verse from the Quran that clearly and unarguable describes modern-day science (i.e. something that was not known or easily guessed in the 7th century) ... just produce any verse you like ... I just showed you the 3 verses from Surah 50 where there is certainly no mention of any DNA or evolution.

You are "seeing" imaginary visions, and frankly that is certainly a sign of dangerous religious delusional madness.

Your religious fanaticism is also so extreme, that you are not capable of an honest conversation, either here or anywhere else. When you are faced with a difficult question, such as when I have asked you why you cannot find even one genuine science paper that claims to have found evidence that God revealed science in the Quran, your response to that is either to completely refuse to reply or answer, or else to reply with a long page of preaching about how wonderful you think God and the Quran are …. that is not an honest answer or honest response …

… the honest fact is that the reason why there are no science papers making any such claim, is that all of real published science shows why your claims & beliefs are entirely untrue.

You have to be more honest here if you want to make any progress at all. But your extreme religion is preventing you from facing the honest truth.

Hello, dear philosopher
Although your objections to our words regarding the verses of the Quran, which are the same as the truth, are repetitive. But again, I felt it necessary to warn you and other disbelieving members; All the components of the creation of the universe are designed very precisely. And God alone moves exactly according to the calculated plan. And according to God's previous plan, it will eventually return to its origin. God has claimed this in the verses of the Qur'an in the seventh century. And quantum science has proven it. Read Hawking's discoveries and words to understand the truth of this matter. You cannot deny modern science. can you?! no never.
Leave a thoughtful, correct and logical message.
The verses of the Qur'an and its commentators and translators do not need to produce material about the Qur'an. Because God alone has produced the verses of the Qur'an.
And it is the truth. Stop denying the truth. This way of you disbelievers has an ominous and very dangerous outcome. It is my human duty to warn you. The choice is yours.