The Russian Invasion of Ukraine Part 4

[theprestige]

I don't know what this means. What Russia defeat? I'm seeing reports of supply lines being cut off, railways being destroyed, and transportation being extremely limited in Ukraine's counter....uhm, retaliation? I don't know now, what do we call it when they're attacking the areas around Kherson. I'm fine with being wrong, but I'm not going to use a 3 lines description whenever it should be talked about.

So...what is it then? Do I say "In Ukraine's Battlespace Prep"?



I mean, if that's what needs to be said.

I said counteroffensive, is that still ok to describe what's happening around Kherson? What else do I call it? An attack? Squabble? One-sided bombing?

Personally I'd reserve "counteroffensive" for a major push by a belligerent, with their main strength, with the objective of driving off the enemy, retaking captured territory, and holding it against counterattacks.

Counterattacks themselves are defensive in nature, attempting to blunt or destroy an offensive push by the enemy.

I'd call what Ukraine is doing right now defense in depth or defense in detail, or just "defense". Logically it includes some attacks on enemy positions, but unless they're accompanied by an actual offensive push, those attacks are not part of a counteroffensive.

 

[plague311]

Personally I'd reserve "counteroffensive" for a major push by a belligerent, with their main strength, with the objective of driving off the enemy, retaking captured territory, and holding it against counterattacks.

Counterattacks themselves are defensive in nature, attempting to blunt or destroy an offensive push by the enemy.

I'd call what Ukraine is doing right now defense in depth or defense in detail, or just "defense". Logically it includes some attacks on enemy positions, but unless they're accompanied by an actual offensive push, those attacks are not part of a counteroffensive.

I'm seriously getting the impression that this is all pretty subjective, and I don't understand how calling it "defense" when they're attacking, and taking ground, makes it any more understandable, but you guys are the ones in the know.

So, should I comment in the future, defense it is!

 

[Klimax]

Nope, I first heard about it on Denys Davydov's daily (pro-Ukrainian) situation update.

It's confirmed by ISW's mapping:

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/36a7f6a6f5a9448496de641cf64bd375

Bloody hell! Can't you even read bloody legend for that map? ISW uses for that area color orange. Do you know what does it mean? It means "Russian Claimed Control" AKA: WORTHLESS!

Once again you proved you are incapable of reading your own sources!

So thank you for providing evidenced that Russians don't control it.

 

[Klimax]

Thanks for the obviously unbiased primary source.

Worthless post containing only Poisoning the well logical fallacy. Can't you do any better? Where is evidence that Russians control it? Or did HIMARS destroy it?

 

[Jimbo07]

I'm seriously getting the impression that this is all pretty subjective, ...

Oh, I agree, totally!

So, should I comment in the future, defense it is!

Rather, maybe don't lead with:

I know, I know, I know. "wE arEn'T bEIng negATiVE, JuST Realists!!ONEELEVENTY"

A realist might caution you about being overly optimistic!

 

[ginjawarrior]

Can't wait for tomorrow's sattelite images. The size and scale of area of explosions could mean all of this was hit

https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-army-reveals-russians-kept-133600263.html

According to the committee, preliminary data indicate that the Russian military had concentrated in the area no less than:

eight S-400 air defense systems,

three S-300 air defense systems,

five Pantsir-S1 anti-aircraft missile systems,

440 transporter-launcher containers (TLCs).

In addition, 17 AFVs, 10 Gvozdika self-propelled guns, seven Msta-S self-propelled guns, two Pion self-propelled guns, three BM-21 Grad anti-aircraft guns, and ammunition were unloaded near ​​the Azovska railway station.

 

[Oystein]

Worthless post containing only Poisoning the well logical fallacy. ?

You would never do that, right?
Right??
Oh, wait:

... It means "Russian Claimed Control" AKA: WORTHLESS!
?..

You would

Can't you do any better? Where is evidence that Russians control it? Or did HIMARS destroy it?

Control what? I did not talk about Russia controlling, or claiming to control, any "it". I merely pointed out that your source is biased. Rather obviously so. That is NOT "poisoning the well". I do not say that source is "always lying" or anything of the sort. Just that it is biased. Just read it. It's totally obvious. Biased is not the same as wrong. We are supposedly skeptics here. Skeptics do not take biased, secondary sources on blind faith.

 

[Oystein]

Is Ukraine attacking the Russians in an area that Russia took from them in hopes of destabilizing, slowing, or halting their attacks? Yes? Then it's a ******* counteroffensive. Christ. Is this even a nitpick? It's like you went as far out of your way as possible to frame it as negatively for Ukraine as possible.

I know, I know, I know. "wE arEn'T bEIng negATiVE, JuST Realists!!ONEELEVENTY"

Sweet.



Neat.

I suggest you read again what I wrote. What I actually wrote. Not what I didn't write but you somehow think I wrote.

 

[Craig4]

Should we be united against the Judean People's Front?

 

[Craig4]

I don't really care for any of the maps showing areas of "control". Any area inside either combatant's Fire Support Line (FSL) ought to be called "contested". It's not occupied but it's in range of the enemy's fielded artillery and subject to sustained fire so it's not under anyone's control. Both side's areas of "control" should move back about 40 km.

 

[a_unique_person]

I didn't say the bombings were the counteroffensive. If that's what people took, then I'll definitely try to make myself clearer next time, not that it means much to me but obviously some here are very focused on the distinction.

When I look up "ukraine kherson" I saw multiple headlines referring to the counteroffensive. From all over the place, but if you guys say I'm wrong. **** it, it won't be the first and it's not going to be the last.

My bad, lesson learned. Hence why I don't comment and only read here.

ETA: I even included a thumbnail from ISW where they're calling it a counteroffensive in the area around Kherson. I seriously have to be missing something here. What is it? How would I have possibly known not to call it a counteroffensive when every news source I'm reading is calling it exactly that? Pretend I'm not in the military. What would a layman call it? Because I'm not seeing the words "battlefield prep".

Kherson is supposed to be a counter offensive but I think it's not your normal counter offensive .

Since this is an asymmetric war and Ukraine lacks the heavy equipment needed, it could be termed a soft counter offensive. They are doing what they can with what they have.

It obviously has Russia worried because a large amount of resources have been diverted to Kherson to defend the area.

The current aim appears to be to get Russia to use up all the supplies defending Kherson, deny resupply and isolate the forces west of the river.

Not your normal war.

 

[dudalb]

ANother advantage of this kind of raid is that the Russians will now have to deploy troops badly needed at the front to increase the guards at rear area bases
Some Historians think that the most valuable thing that the Russian Partisan movement in World War 2 did was not so much actual damage, but the large number of troops Germany had to use to guard lines of communication and bases that could have been used at the front.

 

[zorro99]

Them depots got blowed up real good!

 

[kookbreaker]

Them depots got blowed up real good!

Well, they’s a professional!

 

[Wildy]

Them depots got blowed up real good!

Maybe they exploded on their own?

 

[Aridas]

To poke at a couple things...

First, a Crimea note -

Putin's fascist regime has closed the bridge connecting occupied #Crimea & mainland #Russia. 30,000+ escaped just yesterday before closure, which appears to have been done to prevent civilians from leaving & to allow regime administration & families to escape without traffic.

Second, we've apparently got Russians quite pissed about not being able to get visas to Baltic States.

This Russian is very angry about the visas. He threatens to destroy the entire Baltics.

This self righteousness is exactly what got the visas banned in the first place.

A Lithuanian official offered a bit of a work around, though.

Lithuania will issue tourist visas to all Russians who can swim to our holiday resorts via this sea corridor. #visabanforrussians

 

[sackett]

ANother advantage of this kind of raid is that the Russians will now have to deploy troops badly needed at the front to increase the guards at rear area bases
Some Historians think that the most valuable thing that the Russian Partisan movement in World War 2 did was not so much actual damage, but the large number of troops Germany had to use to guard lines of communication and bases that could have been used at the front.

Another opinion that I read in college (in the 60s, so it may not have withstood later scholarship) is that the partisans' chief contribution was to keep Russians in German-held territory reminded that Stalin was still in power and that his regime intended to come back. The partisans certainly expended a lot of effort in dealing with collaborators; to encourage the others, don't you know.

If Ukrainian partisans, and you can bet there are some, do the same, I sure as hell don't approve, of course. One of the worst horrors of war is the way it's always the same damn thing all over again. Like human nature.

 

[The Don]

ANother advantage of this kind of raid is that the Russians will now have to deploy troops badly needed at the front to increase the guards at rear area bases
Some Historians think that the most valuable thing that the Russian Partisan movement in World War 2 did was not so much actual damage, but the large number of troops Germany had to use to guard lines of communication and bases that could have been used at the front.

It also means that Russian units well away from the front have to be on high alert and cannot get rest and recuperate and/or training - another win for Ukraine.

 

[The Don]

Kherson is supposed to be a counter offensive but I think it's not your normal counter offensive .

Since this is an asymmetric war and Ukraine lacks the heavy equipment needed, it could be termed a soft counter offensive. They are doing what they can with what they have.

It obviously has Russia worried because a large amount of resources have been diverted to Kherson to defend the area.

The current aim appears to be to get Russia to use up all the supplies defending Kherson, deny resupply and isolate the forces west of the river.

Not your normal war.

A number of YouTubers have commented on this recently, especially in light of the senior Russian commanders apparently leaving the area. Recapturing Kherson is doable in their opinion, but successfully crossing the Dnieper River will be a much greater challenge.

 

[a_unique_person]

I wouldn't be taking those videos that close.