Split Thread Akron police shoot unarmed man 60 times

[Thermal]

The presumption was that he was armed, obviously..

And yet he wasn't. That presumptuous presumption sucked moose cock, and sent an unarmed man (who was apparently wisely running like hell away from these cops) to his early grave. No, the guy was no angel. No, he didn't do anything worth killing him over, done and done.

.and he was alive when the shooting started, which took place over 6-7 seconds. Unfortunately he decided to take on run like hell away from a large group of cops.

FTFY

"Unarmed corpse" is just something to evoke emotion, imo.

Its actually a neutral description. He was demonstrably unarmed. He was in fact a corpse.

What do I have to call him? A. "Damn near could have been packing major heat, absolute wild man that was temporarily without brain activity"?

 

[plague311]

And yet he wasn't. That presumptuous presumption sucked moose cock, and sent an unarmed man (who was apparently wisely running like hell away from these cops) to his early grave. No, the guy was no angel. No, he didn't do anything worth killing him over, done and done.

I think he turned around at the very end. That's what caused the cops to fire. They saw him "reach towards his waistband" after he turned around and then the shooting started.

I didn't think about this before, but Warp12 just said that the shooting lasted 6-7 seconds. Think about that, 6-7 entire seconds. The whole foot chase lasted ******* 10. That means that they shot him for almost the same amount of time it took to chase him. Seriously, start a timer, stare at it, and realize how ******* long 6-7 seconds is for 6-8 cops to be shooting. That's ******* insane.

 

[Thermal]

I think he turned around at the very end. That's what caused the cops to fire. They saw him "reach towards his waistband" after he turned around and then the shooting started.

I didn't think about this before, but Warp12 just said that the shooting lasted 6-7 seconds. Think about that, 6-7 entire seconds. The whole foot chase lasted ******* 10. That means that they shot him for almost the same amount of time it took to chase him. Seriously, start a timer, stare at it, and realize how ******* long 6-7 seconds is for 6-8 cops to be shooting. That's ******* insane.

Agreed. I saw a thing on Reddit where a young woman planking for the first time said "I apologise for complaining to the men I've dated. Turns out a minute is a long time".

I do suppose, though, that the victim did something that looked scary enough for 8 to simultaneously open fire in what seems to be a panic. Like, this was not a subtle hand movement; the fear of God entered these cops at the same moment and to the same intense degree.

But it simply doesn't matter, as many say here. It matters not a whit what it "looked like" he "might" be doing. Cops don't get to kill because they want to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[smartcooky]

And yet he wasn't. That presumptuous presumption sucked moose cock, and sent an unarmed man (who was apparently wisely running like hell away from these cops) to his early grave. No, the guy was no angel. No, he didn't do anything worth killing him over, done and done.

So, let me see if I have this right.

Its dark. A man shoots at me from his car. When he stops, he gets out of his car (wearing a ski-mask) and runs like hell and I start chasing him. And then, in the dark, he turns around and reaches to his waistband, and I am supposed to assume that he is somehow not still carrying the gun he shot at me with earlier, wait until he shoots at me and only then do I get to shoot back?

Sorry, but you can **** right off if you expect me to do that. I would have put two in rapid fire into his centre mass, and I make no apologies for that. My life is more important to me than the life of some some random guy who is trying to end me!

 

[Warp12]

I would have put two in rapid fire into his centre mass, and I make no apologies for that. My life is more important to me than the life of some some random guy who is trying to end me!

Let's get real here: That isn't how it would have went down in the heat of the moment. You would would have pumped the dude full of lead until you knew he was absolutely zero threat. These days perps are wearing body armor at times. And that is likely what every one of these cops did, lit him the hell up. And I don't blame them one bit.

 

[lomiller]

All of his actions leading up to that point.

Yeah nothing says "take on the cops" like unloading you gun and leaving it behind.

 

[lomiller]

Let's get real here:

Ok

That isn't how it would have went down in the heat of the moment.

I though you were going to get real? Have you even been trained in using a gun? I mean really trained not the silly bugger BS they teach at your local gun club. Police all around the world are trained not to shoot people unless they can confirm an immanent threat. So are military's all around the world. And, it works, they don't kill unarmed people to anywhere near the same degree US police do.

 

[Andy_Ross]

So, let me see if I have this right.

Its dark. A man shoots at me from his car. When he stops, he gets out of his car (wearing a ski-mask) and runs like hell and I start chasing him. And then, in the dark, he turns around and reaches to his waistband, and I am supposed to assume that he is somehow not still carrying the gun he shot at me with earlier, wait until he shoots at me and only then do I get to shoot back?

Sorry, but you can **** right off if you expect me to do that. I would have put two in rapid fire into his centre mass, and I make no apologies for that. My life is more important to me than the life of some some random guy who is trying to end me!

We have no evidence that he shot at anyone from the car.

We only have the cops word for it that he reached for his waistband plus there was no gun.

You would have killed an unarmed man.

Well done.

 

[Andy_Ross]

deleted

 

[Warp12]

Ok


I though you were going to get real? Have you even been trained in using a gun? I mean really trained not the silly bugger BS they teach at your local gun club. Police all around the world are trained not to shoot people unless they can confirm an immanent threat. So are military's all around the world. And, it works, they don't kill unarmed people to anywhere near the same degree US police do.

Yes, I have not been trained as a CIA assassin, unlike some internet forum members. That is why they can confidently state what their actions would be in a fictional gunfight where they were confronted with potentially deadly force.

I stand by my statement. Nobody who wants to live is just putting a couple in "centre mass", these days. It's looks good on paper; it leads to death in the heat of the moment. We just recently saw this with a mass shooter in the US who was shot multiple times by security, but killed the security guard.

 

[Thermal]

Let's get real here: That isn't how it would have went down in the heat of the moment. You would would have pumped the dude full of lead until you knew he was absolutely zero threat. These days perps are wearing body armor at times. And that is likely what every one of these cops did, lit him the hell up. And I don't blame them one bit.

Was The Perp wearing this mythical body armor? No. I'd actually love to see some data on the prevalence of these mythical body armored street thugs, btw.

Eta: and I'd venture that all the cops had body armor, so the threat is much lower for them.

Was This heinous Perp even armed? No.

Just a bunch of cops pissing their pants over an unarmed man trying to get away from them.

Love to know how many of the Hateful 8 had been shot at in the past, to explain this PTSD reaction.

 

[lionking]

So, let me see if I have this right.

Its dark. A man shoots at me from his car. When he stops, he gets out of his car (wearing a ski-mask) and runs like hell and I start chasing him. And then, in the dark, he turns around and reaches to his waistband, and I am supposed to assume that he is somehow not still carrying the gun he shot at me with earlier, wait until he shoots at me and only then do I get to shoot back?

Sorry, but you can **** right off if you expect me to do that. I would have put two in rapid fire into his centre mass, and I make no apologies for that. My life is more important to me than the life of some some random guy who is trying to end me!

Well all I can say is thank goodness you are not a cop.

Apart from anything else, you are buying the police commentary word for word. Do US cops ever lie?

 

[smartcooky]

We have no evidence that he shot at anyone from the car.

Wrong.

We have video evidence of a shot being fired from inside the car (already posted in this thread).

We have the sound of the shot on the video from inside the police car (already posted in this thread).

We have a cop's response "shot fired" immediately after the shot was fired (already posted in this thread).

We only have the cops word for it that he reached for his waistband

Wrong.

We have video evidence of this. (already posted in this thread).

..plus there was no gun.

Yes there was, but he left it behind in the car, and there was no way any of the cops could have known this. The cops had evidence he was armed, and no indication that this had changed.

You would have killed an unarmed man.

Well done.

Pro Tip. If you go pointing and shooting a gun at cops, expect them to shoot back at some point.

 

[lomiller]

That is why they can confidently state what their actions would be in a fictional gunfight where they were confronted with potentially deadly force.

"potentially deadly force" from an unarmed man? These cops broke the most basic rule of handling a firearm, know what you are shooting at and why. They never saw a gun, they couldn't have because he didn't have one.

 

[smartcooky]

Well all I can say is thank goodness you are not a cop.

Apart from anything else, you are buying the police commentary word for word. Do US cops ever lie?

I am buying the video evidence.

Look, normally, I am one of the first the first persons here to call out racist cops for killing unarmed black people, you absolutely know this to be true.

However, I see mitigating circumstances here in that the deceased person WAS INDISPUTABLY ARMED at one point during the chase AND there are clear, multiple items of evidence (including video and audio) that he fired at least one shot from his car.

The cops had absolutely NO REASON WHATSEVER to believe he was no longer armed.

 

[lionking]

I am buying the video evidence.

Look, normally, I am one of the first the first persons here to call out racist cops for killing unarmed black people, you absolutely know this to be true.

However, I see mitigating circumstances here in that the deceased person WAS INDISPUTABLY ARMED at one point during the chase AND there are clear, multiple items of evidence (including video and audio) that he fired at least one shot from his car.

The cops had absolutely NO REASON WHATSEVER to believe he was no longer armed.

What? They saw the gun after he left the car?

They also had no reason to believe he was armed as they didn’t see a gun because they couldn’t as there wasn’t.

Do you unquestionably accept the word of the police that his hand was going towards his waist? Why would he be doing that AS HE HAD NOTHING THERE.

 

[smartcooky]

What? They saw the gun after he left the car?

They also had no reason to believe he was armed as they didn’t see a gun because they couldn’t as there wasn’t.

Adorably naive.

I don't know how police are trained in Australia, but I can tell you than in this country (at least in the AOS, but probably across all branches) and very likely in the USA as well, the mantra as regards dealing with a suspect is that if it has been established that the suspect is armed, the presumption will remain that the suspect is armed until or unless there is clear evidence that the suspect has either been disarmed, or disposed of the weapon they were carrying and is no longer armed.

This is why, when there is a crime such as an armed robbery, the public are warned that the suspect(s) are considered armed and dangerous. If Police find him, they too will consider him to be armed and dangerous, even if they do not see a weapon.


ETA: For example

https://kogt.com/man-considered-armed-and-dangerous/

"Timothy Claypool should be considered armed and dangerous; no attempt should be made to detain him. Police should be notified immediately if his location is known."​

Now, the police do not know if he still has a gun, but his previous status means he will be "considered armed and dangerous" until such time as they know he is not. This is pretty standard with ALL police worldwide... even in Australia and the UK

 

[sarge]

What? They saw the gun after he left the car?

They also had no reason to believe he was armed as they didn’t see a gun because they couldn’t as there wasn’t.

Do you unquestionably accept the word of the police that his hand was going towards his waist? Why would he be doing that AS HE HAD NOTHING THERE.

I am no cop apologist but the cops certainly had reason to be;Ive he was armed. It would have been strange if they had assumed him not to be armed, given that he had immediately before exiting the car shot a gun.

Still, there was no reason to have shot him even once, much less 60 times. The cops were never in danger and it was not reasonable for them to have believed they were in danger at any point after the victim left the car.

 

[lionking]

Still, there was no reason to have shot him even once, much less 60 times. The cops were never in danger and it was not reasonable for them to have believed they were in danger at any point after the victim left the car.

And this is my main point.

Look, I have disclosed I worked for a large police force and sat on Force Command (which met twice daily) for 8 years. I am absolutely familiar with the “better to be tried by 12 than carried by 4” ethos. I am not a knee jerk “blame the police” merchant.

But to me this is one of the most egregious cases of police overreaction I’ve seen. Again to repeat myself, a high speed pursuit over a licence irregularity should not have happened. When the car stopped, attempts to de-escalate the event should have occurred, to the extent of letting the deceased simply run away rather than execute him. The scale of the shooting points to (possibly racist) bloodlust. It was disgraceful policing.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Wrong.

We have video evidence of a shot being fired from inside the car (already posted in this thread).

We have the sound of the shot on the video from inside the police car (already posted in this thread).

We have a cop's response "shot fired" immediately after the shot was fired (already posted in this thread).

Pro Tip. If you go pointing and shooting a gun at cops, expect them to shoot back at some point.

.

No way that is a shot fired inside the car
No way a shot fired inside a car racing down the road was heard inside another car racing down the road.
Cops are liars

There was no shot at the cops.

Glad you aren't a cop.

Their local police union has said it believes the officers acted in line with their training. That there is the problme.
Who the **** is training them?