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Split Thread Akron police shoot unarmed man 60 times
- Thread starter alfaniner
- Start date
Like seriously. "Interaction with law enforcement is so risky that's its a viable suicide method" is ****** up.
And yeah sure there's the whole "Blaze of glory" thing and yeah that's not like a total non-factor but it still shouldn't be something we're okay with.
plague311
Great minds think...
I don't think it's too much to ask for the cops to at least see the gun before they shoot. I really don't.
I'm sure there are a few here that will say "but by the time you see the gun they can shoot you". Which sucks. That sucks, but they're wearing a bullet proof vest most of the time, and putting themselves at risk is part of the gig.
I'm sure there are a few here that will say "but by the time you see the gun they can shoot you". Which sucks. That sucks, but they're wearing a bullet proof vest most of the time, and putting themselves at risk is part of the gig.
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Fear. Better that children get shot than them.
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Seems to be extensive disagreement among US cops on this point.
"Putting themselves at risk" is a little different than making conscious decisions that maximize their risk. Everyone wants to critique cops and say they signed up for the job, but they are hesitant to point out when people behave in idiotic ways that contribute to their own demise.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
When officers are pumping lead into an already-dead body, no, the fact that some of them missed doesn't make that much of a difference. I'm honestly surprised that the corpse was even recognisable after that.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
I disagree.
1. Walker's personal circumstances support it.
2. What he left behind in the car supports it.
3. His behaviour after leaving the car supports it.
All three taken together is strong (but not conclusive) evidence.
Suicidal people do irrational things, and what he did was irrational - leading the Police to believe he was armed, and then purposefully disarming himself, and then behaving as if he was still armed when confronted by the Police, is highly irrational.
None of this in any way excuses the Police for their extreme, OTT, borderline criminal behaviour, but IMO there is nothing weird or unlikely about the possibility that this guy didn't want to live any more - and when he saw an opportunity to end his life, he did so.
Thermal
August Member
*checks in briefly to see if a sane reason why there are sixty bullet holes in an unarmed corpse has been presented*
*notes that there has not*
*notes that there has not*
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Don't bother coming back then... because you will be wasting your time....there is never going to be a sane or logical reason to pump someone full of lead to the tune of 60 bullets.
arthwollipot
Limerick Purist Pronouns: He/Him
Even if there was a legitimate reason for him to be shot - which I do not grant, not for a second - there was still no reason to continue putting holes in a corpse on the ground.
Yet there are a number who are entirely happy to justify the Keystone Cops like behaviour which led up to the shooting. A high speed pursuit over a licence irregularity? Rubbish.
plague311
Great minds think...
And cops, on some level, should be able to handle these situations without shooting. Everywhere in the world every single day there are suicidal people who make it through confrontations without being killed. Just because someone wants to die doesn't mean that the cops should give them a hand.
Also, the only basis we have to say he was threatening was the cops word that he reached for his waistband. That's it. Nothing more. We know he didn't have a gun, so this all boils down to him getting shot 60 times for reaching to his waistband. That doesn't seem ****** up? It certainly does to me.
Thermal
August Member
Are we pretty sure the guy was suicidal? I mean, he unloaded the gun. That sounds like a deliberate step towards avoiding a charge that....he would still have to be alive to face.
Then he ran. People running away, unarmed, from police are not suicidal. They are trying to stay alive.
The way I interpret reaching towards the waistband (assuming for the moment that he actually did so), is a street corner bluff. Running cops see him reach, and duck for cover, giving him the split second to buy some time and put some more asphalt between him and the cops. Not saying it's a genius plan of course. Bunch of bad improvised decisions, really, but not suicidally motivated. Someone going for suicide by cop would have done nearly the opposite of what he did at every turn.
Then he ran. People running away, unarmed, from police are not suicidal. They are trying to stay alive.
The way I interpret reaching towards the waistband (assuming for the moment that he actually did so), is a street corner bluff. Running cops see him reach, and duck for cover, giving him the split second to buy some time and put some more asphalt between him and the cops. Not saying it's a genius plan of course. Bunch of bad improvised decisions, really, but not suicidally motivated. Someone going for suicide by cop would have done nearly the opposite of what he did at every turn.
No. I mean there's semantics and different types of "suicidal" and I don't think assuming he most certainly did not had a healthy long term outlook on life is all that unreasonable, but "suicide by cop" is just a guess at this point.
I mean there's nuance, like you could probably fairly assume that he wasn't expecting this to be a long term viable plan, let he had to know how it was going to end eventually but I think that is distinct from what we are saying when we talk about suicide by cop.
It's hard to put into exact words but there's a difference between "suicidal" and "not caring if you die."
I mean there's nuance, like you could probably fairly assume that he wasn't expecting this to be a long term viable plan, let he had to know how it was going to end eventually but I think that is distinct from what we are saying when we talk about suicide by cop.
It's hard to put into exact words but there's a difference between "suicidal" and "not caring if you die."
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plague311
Great minds think...
All good points.
The part that's sticking to me about the whole "he might be armed, fill him full of as many shots as possible" is that I'd think he'd use the gun a bit more. A single shot doesn't really seem all that threatening. As you said he was running, he wasn't running and firing behind him or anything. Then again, in the moment the police might not be thinking clearly. It call comes back to a very poorly trained police force in the US.
The presumption was that he was armed, obviously...and he was alive when the shooting started, which took place over 6-7 seconds. Unfortunately he decided to take on a large group of cops.
"Unarmed corpse" is just something to evoke emotion, imo.
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Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2010
- Messages
- 84,135
How did he 'take on' the cops?
He was about to point at them with his finger. Worth killing him to save the humiliation…..