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Ed Christianity Foments Villainy

Leumas said:
OK... why don't you answer the questions in this post then???
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Because I see it as a dishonest question. Not that I don't see Christianity as vile in its totality. I do. But that many Christians I see as good people look for and embrace what is good in the book. And there are good things in the book.
 
Leumas said:
I am convinced that you indeed do....


However... can you please tell me...

Do you think that it is ok for person to believe that a mass murderer can be in heaven while the people he massacred can be in hell?
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Doesn't matter. I'm not a Christian. And a Christian would answer the same way. But their reasoning would be different. They would say that isn't up to them. It is up to God.
 
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acbytesla said:
Doesn't matter. I'm not a Christian. And a Christian would answer the same way. But their reasoning would be different. They would say that isn't up to them. It is up to God.
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See ... you say you value logic but your above answer is abject illogic...

I suggest you read the question again and see if you can apply logic to it and try again...

Hint: I did not ask you to answer as a christian ... I asked
Do you think that it is ok for a person to believe that a mass murderer can be in heaven while the people he massacred can be in hell?​

So can you answer AS YOU... not as a christian???
 
Leumas said:
Let me give you a parable so that you might see but not perceive.... just like Jesus :D
Four people walking down road.... they come across a carrion...
"A": Says let's share it
"B": says are you crazy it is fetid and rife with filth I want nothing to do with it
"C": says ok and takes 1/3rd and starts cutting away the putrid parts trimming away the obviously filthy stuff and cooks it and eats it.
"A": takes his 1/3rd and proceeds to eat it raw ignoring the filth and muck.
"D": takes his 1/3rd and picks the filth and gunk and starts eating that and then grabs a passerby and SELLS him the relatively cleaner 1/3rd of the carrion​
Can you collate the persons in order of who is least disgusting to most disgusting???
Do you affirm that there was filth and muck in the carrion but prefer to remind us that there was good meat still there???​
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Define disgusting.. What and/or who's standards are you judging?
 
acbytesla said:
Because I see it as a dishonest question. Not that I don't see Christianity as vile in its totality. I do. But that many Christians I see as good people look for and embrace what is good in the book. And there are good things in the book.
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Your above answer is an abject illogic... how is it exactly a dishonest question??? What is dishonest is to not answer a question by saying it is dishonest... that is what sophists do... and you said you value logic... no... well you are not applying it.
 
Leumas said:
I am convinced that you indeed do....


However... can you please tell me...


Do you think that it is ok for person to believe that a mass murderer can be in heaven while the people he massacred can be in hell?
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You didn't direct this at me, but . . .

Why should I give one moment's thought to whether or not another person's belief system about things that aren't even real is "OK?" There is no hell, and when the victim died, they ceased to exist. The same is true for the murderer when they die. In actuality, both murderer and victim shared the exact same ultimate fate. There is no such thing as "final justice."

And in actual practice, your question doesn't reflect the real world. Almost no Christian believes that a mass murderer will go to heaven and their victims will go to hell. They believe the victims are in a better place and the murderer will have to face God's judgement. I'm OK with them believing in that fantasy because it's comforting to them.
 
xjx388 said:
You didn't direct this at me, but . . .

Why should I give one moment's thought to whether or not another person's belief system about things that aren't even real is "OK?" There is no hell, and when the victim died, they ceased to exist. The same is true for the murderer when they die. In actuality, both murderer and victim shared the exact same ultimate fate. There is no such thing as "final justice."

And in actual practice, your question doesn't reflect the real world. Almost no Christian believes that a mass murderer will go to heaven and their victims will go to hell. They believe the victims are in a better place and the murderer will have to face God's judgement. I'm OK with them believing in that fantasy because it's comforting to them.
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You say almost none... what does that mean ... 0%... or 1% or 0.1%... what???

Also... what do you think these parables mean?? To YOU and what you think they mean to those almost no christians?

  1. Parable of the lost sheep
    • Luke 15:4-7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
  2. Parable of the vineyard workers
    • Matthew 20:1-16 .... they began to grumble against the landowner. ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’ But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
  3. Money lender forgiving debtors
    • Luke 7: 41-43 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.
  4. Parable of the prodigal son
    • Luke 15:11-32 ….It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
 
Leumas said:
Your above answer is an abject illogic... how is it exactly a dishonest question??? What is dishonest is to not answer a question by saying it is dishonest... that is what sophists do... and you said you value logic... no... well you are not applying it.
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It's a strawman.
 
xjx388 said:
Why are you approaching this as some kind of Socratic teaching thing? Obviously, you are making a metaphor between the carcass and religion. Which is why I said I would rather leave the carcass for the disgusting thing it is.

You don’t need to teach me anything and the attitude is condescending. This would go a lot better if you drop the Wise Man attitude and actually engaged in debate.
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Your post to which the parable was given as an answer ... says otherwise....

xjx388 said:
Here is your definition of a good Christian:

"If he is a theist and can wriggle and wring his religion to justify doing good deeds despite being an adherent of his religion."

To me, that is completely backwards. A theist who wriggles and wrings the Christian religion to justify evil deeds is not merely a bad Christian, they aren't actually a Christian at all.

Further, that definition merely confirms that for you, most adherents of Christianity are evil, at least passively. Your view is that to qualify as a "good Christian," they have to fight against the core, evil message of their religion and wrest some good out of it. Again, that's completely backwards in my view.
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Your answer of BACD and the above post are in absolute discordance... I suggest you ponder about this... read your above post... and look at your response to the parable questions ... see if you can spot the problems in your reasoning in the post.
 
acbytesla said:
Do you really think I don't understand what cognitive dissonance is?
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No I really do not think you do... you might think you do... but I doubt you have actually read any good literature about it.... I suggest you do...
 
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acbytesla said:
It's a strawman.
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So a parable and questions about it is a strawman... please elucidate...

Sorry... I was confused there... you meant this question is a strawman...
Do you think that it is ok for a person to believe that a mass murderer can be in heaven while the people he massacred can be in hell?​

Still ... please expound on this.... how is a question ... a strawman???
 
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acbytesla said:
Because it doesn't directly relate.
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Do you know what a parable is... can you explain how my parable does not relate... and to what??? And How does that make it a strawman??

And if you meant this question is a strawman... then please pray tell... how is a question a strawman.
Do you think that it is ok for a person to believe that a mass murderer can be in heaven while the people he massacred can be in hell?​
 
xjx388 said:
You didn't direct this at me, but . . .

Why should I give one moment's thought to whether or not another person's belief system about things that aren't even real is "OK?" There is no hell, and when the victim died, they ceased to exist. The same is true for the murderer when they die....
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Because you have posted all but countless posts in this thread and another thread telling me that I should.... here is one

xjx388 said:
But -and this is hard for atheists to do- we need to put ourselves in the mindset of the believers. If you really look, you will find that the vast majority of people who call themselves Christian do not find ways to justify evil in their "holy scripture." For most everyday adherents, they use it to find a way to be better people.

Further -and again, this is hard for atheists to do- we need to "play on the same field," as the believers if you are going to have a meaningful discourse with them. You have to "play by their rules." It does no good to tell them their religion is evil. They aren't judging "good and evil," by the same standards as atheists are. You have to understand that in order to reach them.
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acbytesla said:
... I value skepticism and logic above anything else....
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acbytesla said:
Because I see it as a dishonest question. Not that I don't see Christianity as vile in its totality. I do. But that many Christians I see as good people look for and embrace what is good in the book. And there are good things in the book.
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Can you apply some logic and see if it will lead you to spoting the DISSONANCE here???


ETA:
acbytesla said:
And there are good things in the book.
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Can you list 10 please... I am assuming you mean the New Tall tales (NT) ... 10 from the NT please.
 
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