Scorpion
Illuminator
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See my post 3249 for five translations of surah 50.17, which talk about angels not DNA. But heydarian says these translations are out of date and only his translation is correct.
The supernatural
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
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See my post 3249 for five translations of surah 50.17, which talk about angels not DNA. But heydarian says these translations are out of date and only his translation is correct.
I did see that, and I appreciate it. My point is that the traditional translations regarding angels (such as the ones you posted) actually make more logical sense than Heydarian's revisionist one. Insofar as, if angels as commonly described in religious traditions actually did exist, they would presumably be capable of observing and recording people's words and actions. The DNA in our cells is not capable of doing any such thing.
aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Did that article about a scientific proof of the supernatural promised in the OP ever showed or was it just a publicity stunt to build an audience?
Mojo
Mostly harmless
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aleCcowaN
imperfecto del subjuntivo
Oh, golly, does it mean that the promised 700k PDF file wasn't his or simply didn't exist? You know, the one that set in motion a bit of a screwball comedy when he tried to upload it.
What about the copypasted bits the OPoster tried. Did they amount to the promised research paper? Because besides some grandstanding, warm welcoming messages and a few failed attempts to be as clever as Avicenna and as poetic as Omar Khayyam —and as current as both of them—, after three thousand posts I don't see any flesh, any bone, any skin, any hair, not even the armpit whiff of a scientific argumentation regarding the supernatural.
And so far, the only conclusion I could reach is that when you want to create your own religion to exploit it or pass as an enlightened person you have two paths: if you live in the hemisphere of the free and the home of the outraged, you simply make one from scratch, like Hubbard did with Scientology. But if you live in a Muslim dominanted dictatorship, where apostates are menaced with prison or even the death penalty, you play along and declare yourself to be a keen translator who has found the real, deep, hidden meaning of the Quran.
Thermal
August Member
*somewhere on a Midwestern farm, a stable cleaner rests on his shovel and realizes he can call his job a Terminological Inexactitude Displacement Engineer*
This is an abject a perfidy...
Quran 50:16-18
- ولقد خلقنا ألإنسان ونعلم ما توسوس به نفسه ونحن أقرب إليه من حبل ألوريد
- إذ يتلقى ألمتلقيان عن أليمين وعن ألشمال قعيد
- ما يلفظ من قول إلا لديه رقيب عتيد
- And We created the human and we know what his inner thoughts are and we are closer to him than his jugular cord.
- For the two receivers receive from the right and the left while seated
- he does not utter a saying without having a ready watcher
Also you know that in their prayer they turn to the left and then the right saying something to the angels SITTING on the left and right shoulders.
So as anyone can clearly see... these verses are saying that there is nothing a human can think or do without the angels sitting on the left and right shoulders recording it down and that Allah knows what the most inner thoughts of a human are.
As any rational person can see... this has absolutely nothing to do with DNA... and any attempt to make it do so is an abject perfidy.
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
It's the name of my local garage, what technological wonders have they been hiding from me? Does the Quoran contain the secrets of the 2003 Toyota Rav4 wiring loom?
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
All aspects of all religions necessarily have to be "translated" by humans. Non-existent entities have a very difficult time with direct communication.
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
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Excuse me, heydarian saeed, but who are you to say you know what God wants to say? How can you say that YOUR interpretation of God's word is the right one? Are you a prophet?
Hans
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello, dear Pixel
What is your reasoning based on?!!
With all due respect, your reasoning is flawed. And it does not prove anything.
I told you with an authentic document that still exists. The Quran is the most reliable evidence. Have you seen the book of the Qur'an? Can you deny it? The book of the Qur'an cannot be denied in any way.
And God has explained DNA and its working process and mechanism briefly and simply in the Qur'an. Of course, the details were left to the scientists in the 20th century. In fact, God has created a motivation for humans that there is genetic science and DNA. And man must discover it. and take advantage of it.
Is it just because no one knew about DNA in the previous 14 centuries? Of course, no human knew about this science in the previous 14 centuries. But... the speaker of this matter is God in the book of the Qur'an. This is very hard to believe. It may even seem impossible. But God has said. Be sure. Be sure. and many other scientific materials. Did anyone know 14 centuries ago that the universe is expanding?!!! ... No
But God knew. And he said in the book of the Qur'an. It is impossible to believe. If you believe in God. I love the word of God in the Quran.
It is not more beautiful than the Quran.
Please look and read the contents of the Quran without bias.
Thanks
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
I am really sorry for you.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
The fact that neither time travel nor precognition exist, therefore the people who wrote the Qu'ran could not possibly have known about future scientific discoveries, and could not possibly have included references (veiled or other) to them.
In what way?
I once forced myself to slog all the way through it, yes. Vile book.
I don't deny it exists. I can and do object to the way you are choosing to deliberately twist and misinterpret what is written in it.
Well it's mostly because the way in which you are deliberately twisting and misinterpreting what is written is insane but yes, that too.
Unsupported assertion.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
Yes, people were unable to twist the words of the Quran to make it look as if it might be talking about DNA until after DNA was discovered.
None of the scientific discoveries you have mentioned were discovered in the Quran, you have just tried to twist the Quran to fit them after they were discovered as a result of scientific research.
What future scientific discoveries does the Quran contain? I bet you can’t come up with a single one.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello, dear philosopher
Welcome to our discussion
If we do not update the meaning and interpretation of the Qur'an, this is pure betrayal. Unfortunately, you also told us the meaning of these verses 14 centuries ago. Unfortunately, it is completely wrong. It is pure superstition. Such meanings have no place for the Quran. I am a free Muslim. Such old and superstitious meanings have no validity for me. The important reason for the immortality of the Qur'an is that it should be translated at any time according to modern science. This is the reason for the immortality of the Qur'an. The meaning of the Quran must be updated. The meaning of the Quran must be updated.The updated meaning of these verses is what I told you. "There are two intertwined strands of DNA (يتلقى ألمتلقيان ) in the genome of the cell that receive and store all our actions. The two strands of DNA are not two angels. Rather, they are two strands of DNA that, due to their simple chemical structure and displacement They are able to receive and store all cellular events in two interwoven threads."Please stay updated. The Quran is eternal. None of the ancient texts and holy books are immortal like the Quran. The Holy Bible contains some of the scientific and modern contents of the Quran. The Quran is unique and the most complete.
Thanks
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It's your reasoning that is "flawed". In fact your ability to reason or be honest with yourself is nil!...zero ... you are completely deluded to the point of what looks like a real mental illness (in which case you need medical help).
The Quran does not mention DNA. It says not a single word about any DNA.
And I have to explain the same thing again to you. Namely -
- if DNA was mentioned anywhere in the Quran, then scientists all over the world have known that for at least the last 400 years! And that would be published in virtually every one of the 100,000 or more science papers published every year ...
... but in fact there are (afaik) not any real science papers that claim DNA was described in the Quran from 600AD!
Why are there no real scientists publishing papers on your astonishing discovery of DNA in the Quran? There should be be tens of thousands of papers reporting that every year! .... where are all these real science papers?
What is your explanation for why science does not publish any of your claims?
That is the only real test here of what is right vs what is wrong. If you can't produce at least a few hundred real research papers that support any of your claims of science revealed in your 7th century holly book, then that is an end to all possible argument ... it means your claims of science area NOT supported by any real science.
And by the way you are now long overdue for having any answer to the questions I have asked you many times here already -
1 Can you produce translations of the Quran that date from before the science was already reported to the world? Eg – did you or your fellow Islamic fanatics start claims about DNA before or only AFTER science had reported the existence & structure of DNA?
… when did you start claiming that the Quran described an expanding universe?... was that before or only AFTER Hubble and others had told the world about it in the 1920's?
If you only made your claims after the world already knew about it from published science, then your claims are 100% worthless trash.
2 Hundreds of years before the Quran was first written, and in some cases thousands of years before, numerous other religions had claimed that God had created the first humans from “Mud” … why was the Quran copying what all those other religions had already said hundreds & thousands of years before any Quran?
3 If the Quran was supposed to have been produced after Mohamed heard the voice of God with all of Gods wishes & instructions etc., then what is more likely (a) that an invisible superhuman being living in the clouds, actually dictated a book to someone, or (b) that men tell lies about hearing the words of a God/gods?
… we can check today to find the answer to such questions and it turns out that lying is extremely common (millions of cases every year in Islam and Christianity), but never even one single genuine verified case of any God ever speaking to anyone.
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heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Look, dear Pixel
-This conclusion of yours is only for "humans". And it makes sense. But... no human has said the Quran. God has said. "God is not human" God is God. And his knowledge is limitless. It is unique.
- You just "concluded" this from your "probability". So no.
Probability has no place in "Proof". But I told you with evidence. My degree is "Quran Documentary Book". that there are 14 centuries. And no one can deny it.
- "Quran is the most beautiful."
"It is the most romantic song."
"It has the most scientific content."
"It is the strongest word."
- You have the right to object. And your objection is completely respected. And I have a duty to be responsible. My answer to your objection is with logic and with the evidence of the Qur'an. And I told you. You have the choice to accept my answer or not. I will not change your thinking. And I will never force you to accept my words. You are a logical, knowledgeable and completely respectable lady. I am not comparing you with any of the members of this forum. You are the best at thinking well.
- I am telling you the up-to-date translation of the verses of the Qur'an quite logically. Of course, this method of mine makes perfect sense. And it's not crazy at all. It may not meet your criteria. But I am not talking irrationally.
- So who said the Quran? Please tell me the answer to this question with valid evidence. to check I am waiting for your response.
Who said the Quran?
Muhammad did not have any literacy. Did the preachers of the Jewish and Christian religions tell Muhammad the Qur'an? Give me documentary evidence for this claim so I can check. With what evidence did they tell the Quran to Muhammad? Is it with the Bible? Who spoke the Bible? God
The Bible has said some of the contents of the Qur'an. Did the missionaries of the religion during the time of Muhammad understand modern science? Definitely not.
So who said the Quran?
This is the support of the Quran. God has said. And its contents are unique and the most complete. There is nothing wrong with it. It is the most complete. It is the word of God. Human speech or any force is not superior to humans. It is only the word of God.
If you have anything against this claim of the Quran, please tell me with a valid and documented proof. I am willing to review and answer.
Thanks
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Your claim that the Qu'ran contains the actual words of God is entirely unsupported. It is also utterly absurd. No sane person could read that drivel and imagine they were reading the words of God.
Until and unless you produce some evidence to support this ridiculous claim I will continue to dismiss it. The burden of proof is on you, not me.
Until and unless you produce some evidence to support this ridiculous claim I will continue to dismiss it. The burden of proof is on you, not me.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello, dear philosopher
With all due respect, much of what you say is bigoted. And it is not worth arguing.
Up-to-date translation of the Quran is a work that I am doing now. 400 years ago or 100 years ago or even 50 years ago, modern translation of the Quran was not in the approach of Islamic societies. Even in today's age, no one does an up-to-date translation of the Qur'an in this way. This is a completely new approach. And I have said this many times in this thread. did you understand
Unfortunately, this completely new approach in updating the translation of Quranic texts is still subject to ugly policies. In fact, they don't let anyone change the old translations!! For ugly political purposes.
I don't want to discuss this at all.
Updating the translation of the Qur'anic material and the expression of modern science, which is present in many verses, is an exclusive task.
All these contents of modern science in the Quran that I am telling you in this topic are scientific articles for the Quran. Of course, I am not familiar with writing a scientific article according to the necessary scientific criteria. In addition, the contents of modern science definitely need a special laboratory, but I do not have expertise in this field. But the thing that can be observed for sure and the objective evidence shows it is that: these contents of modern science are in a book called Quran which was 14 centuries ago. There is. And it is documented. And it is valid.
How do you rate a book that was written 14 centuries ago and still exists today and refers to modern science?
Please judge fairly and without bias.
Thank you
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