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The supernatural

For the article Supernatural

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But the second part of the sentence is not from me.

It is an accurate description of what you are actually doing, whether you realise it or not. The only arguably inaccurate word in it is 'deliberately', because it is entirely possible that you do not realise it. But at this point your ignorance can only be willful, so I still think it's fair to use it.

The use of the word 'magically' is entirely justified, because magic (i.e. some kind of supernatural phenomenon) is the only way the Qu'ran could contain knowledge of scientific discoveries that wouldn't be made for centuries. Which it doesn't, of course. Because there's no such thing as magic.
 
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Please quote the verse from the Quran which says "in the Mud, means over a time of several billion years" ... quote the verse please?

Please quote any verse from the Quran where Allah says "I myself started creating Humans billons of years before Mohamed was ever born" ... please produce the actual verse which says anything like that.

Where is the actual verse please.?

Hello dear philosopher
Before stating the verses you have requested, I must say one thing.
The key word in all verses related to the creation of man and life by God is the word " مِنْ ". The word " مِنْ " in Arabic has at least two meanings: "From - In the"In all the translations written in the relevant verses, this word has been translated to mean: from. When the meaning of is used for translation. The meaning of the sentence is the creation of man and life from soil - mud - smelly sludge - worthless and low water - sticky clay mud. All these meanings are wrong for the meaning of this sentence. And it is nothing but superstition.
"God never said in the Qur'an that I created man or life from soil, mud, stinking sludge, and so on." No. This meaning is wrong. But if the meaning of "in" is used. The meaning of the sentence is correct. Because God said I created man and life in soil - mud - smelly sludge and .... The interpretation of this sentence is: soil - mud, etc. It was just a bed in which life took place.
And this substrate has been due to the necessary conditions for the growth and proliferation of early single cells. The beginning of evolution was in the same necessary initial conditions and the same soil bed - mud and so on. Meanwhile, in the Qur'an, before the relevant verses, he first discusses the chemical evolution of the earth, which is from the atmosphere of the earth's sky and in the outer crust of the earth. And then it tells the creation of man and life "in the soil" and so on.
...
 
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But the relevant verses:
The verses of the creation of man and life "in the mud" - 8 verses.
Sura 38, verse 71
إِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي خَالِقٌ بَشَرًا مِنْ طِينٍ God once addressed the forces and energies that I want to create man "in the mud."Sura 32, verse 7
الَّذِي أَحْسَنَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقَهُ وَبَدَأَ خَلْقَ الْإِنْسَانِ مِنْ طِينٍ God is the one who created everything. And the beginning of human creation has been "in the mud. "Sura 37, verse 11
فَاسْتَفْتِهِمْ أَهُمْ أَشَدُّ خَلْقًا أَمْ مَنْ خَلَقْنَا إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاهُمْ مِنْ طِينٍ لَازِبٍ So ask (the disbelievers who deny the creation of God) is it more difficult to create them, or the original creation that We created " in the sticky mud " of man?
Sura 6, verse 2
هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ طِينٍ ثُمَّ قَضَى أَجَلًا وَأَجَلٌ مُسَمًّى عِنْدَهُ ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ تَمْتَرُونَ God is the one who created you “ in the mud.” And then set a time limit for you to live. (Human life) Do you still have doubts?
Sura 7, verse 12
قَالَ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَلَّا تَسْجُدَ إِذْ أَمَرْتُكَ قَالَ أَنَا خَيْرٌ مِنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِنْ نَارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِنْ طِينٍ God said to Satan, who disobeyed God's command: What prevented you from carrying out my order? Satan said: You created me from fire and created man “in the mud.” So I am superior!
Sura 38, verse 76
قَالَ أَنَا خَيْرٌ مِنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِنْ نَارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِنْ طِينٍSatan said: I am created from fire and therefore I am superior. And man was created “ in the mud.”Sura 23, verse 12
وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنْسَانَ مِنْ سُلَالَةٍ مِنْ طِينٍDo research to see that we created man “in pure mud.”...
 
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Verses of the creation of man and life " In the soil" - 7 verses.
Sura 35, verse 11
وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ ثُمَّ جَعَلَكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا وَمَا تَحْمِلُ مِنْ أُنْثَى وَلَا تَضَعُ إِلَّا بِعِلْمِهِ وَمَا يُعَمَّرُ مِنْ مُعَمَّرٍ وَلَا يُنْقَصُ مِنْ عُمُرِهِ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ إِنَّ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرٌ And God created you "In the soil", then you evolved into semen. Then the next stages of life ... All this is according to the data and information recorded in the book of Creation. And creation is easy for God.
Sura 40, verse 67
هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ عَلَقَةٍ ثُمَّ يُخْرِجُكُمْ طِفْلًا ثُمَّ لِتَبْلُغُوا أَشُدَّكُمْ ثُمَّ لِتَكُونُوا شُيُوخًا وَمِنْكُمْ مَنْ يُتَوَفَّى مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلِتَبْلُغُوا أَجَلًا مُسَمًّى وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ God is the one who created you "In the soil". Then you evolved into a sperm. And the organs and other living characteristics formed in you. Then you were born in the form of a baby and .... Do you not reason in this process of life?
Sura 3, verse 59
إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِنْدَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ آدَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ The creation of Jesus was like the creation of Adam "In the soil". In fact, the creation of Jesus is no different from the creation of man. Because it was the first living cell in Mary's womb. But because no man has reached the Holy Mary. And only by the "direct command of God" the fertilization of the two cells of life (the Ovum and the sperm) occurred in the holy womb of Mary.
And the fetus of Jesus (pbuh) was formed and born. But the basis of human creation and life was exactly the same as the original creation "In the soil". Which is explicitly stated in this verse. In fact, the "miracle" happened because of God's direct command. This is the definition of the miracle of the prophets, that is, it happened only by the direct order of God. And no creature can do that. Like the miraculous prophecies of Moses, Jesus and other prophets.
Sura 18, verse 37
قَالَ لَهُ صَاحِبُهُ وَهُوَ يُحَاوِرُهُ أَكَفَرْتَ بِالَّذِي خَلَقَكَ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ ثُمَّ سَوَّاكَ رَجُلًا In the story of the conversation between two comrades in the Qur'an, he refers to the creation of man "In the soil". He said to his infidel friend: Have you disbelieved in the God who created you "in the soil"?
Sura 30, verse 20
وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ إِذَا أَنْتُمْ بَشَرٌ تَنْتَشِرُونَ It is one of the signs of the existence of God in the universe that created you "in the soil". Then you spread to live on earth.
Sura 22, verse 5
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ فِي رَيْبٍ مِنَ الْبَعْثِ فَإِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُمْ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ عَلَقَةٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ مُضْغَةٍ مُخَلَّقَةٍ وَغَيْرِ مُخَلَّقَةٍ لِنُبَيِّنَ لَكُمْ وَنُقِرُّ فِي الْأَرْحَامِ مَا نَشَاءُ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى ثُمَّ نُخْرِجُكُمْ طِفْلًا ثُمَّ لِتَبْلُغُوا أَشُدَّكُمْ وَمِنْكُمْ مَنْ يُتَوَفَّى وَمِنْكُمْ مَنْ يُرَدُّ إِلَى أَرْذَلِ الْعُمُرِ لِكَيْلَا يَعْلَمَ مِنْ بَعْدِ عِلْمٍ شَيْئًا وَتَرَى الْأَرْضَ هَامِدَةً فَإِذَا أَنْزَلْنَا عَلَيْهَا الْمَاءَ اهْتَزَّتْ وَرَبَتْ وَأَنْبَتَتْ مِنْ كُلِّ زَوْجٍ بَهِيجٍ Do you people doubt that you will be reunited after death? We created you "in the soil". It then describes all the stages of evolution more accurately. It is much easier for me (God) to recreate you!
Sura 13, verse 5
وَإِنْ تَعْجَبْ فَعَجَبٌ قَوْلُهُمْ أَإِذَا كُنَّا تُرَابًا أَإِنَّا لَفِي خَلْقٍ جَدِيدٍ أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِرَبِّهِمْ وَأُولَئِكَ الْأَغْلَالُ فِي أَعْنَاقِهِمْ وَأُولَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ Would you be surprised by my word (God) to recreate you as I created you "in the soil"? And come you back to life? ...
...
 
Continued 3184
The verses of the creation of man and life "in hot dry pottery and in stinking sludge" - 4 verses.
After the formation of primitive single cells (prokaryotes) in the craters of ocean floor volcanoes and their spread on the ocean floor, which lasted about 500 million years. These single cells come to the surface near the shore with water currents in the ocean. Dry hot pottery and smelly sludge is the stage of development of early single cells on the ocean coast, which has been a suitable breeding ground for evolution. And it has lasted almost 500 million years. "Ernest Meyer" and "Kaplan" have discovered and proven this in geology.
Sura 15, verse 33
قَالَ لَمْ أَكُنْ لِأَسْجُدَ لِبَشَرٍ خَلَقْتَهُ مِنْ صَلْصَالٍ مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُونٍ Satan said to God: I am not the one to serve a human being who has dried up “in hot clay mud” and create him “in stinking mud”. (Because I am superior!)
Sura 15, verse 28
وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي خَالِقٌ بَشَرًا مِنْ صَلْصَالٍ مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُونٍ And God said to his forces and energies: I want to dry man “in hot clay mud” and create him “in stinking mud”.
Sura 15, verse 26
وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنْسَانَ مِنْ صَلْصَالٍ مِنْ حَمَإٍ مَسْنُونٍ Investigate to see that God dried man “in hot mud” and created him “in stinking mud”.
Sura 55, verse 14
خَلَقَ الْإِنْسَانَ مِنْ صَلْصَالٍ كَالْفَخَّارِAnd God created man “in hot clay mud, like clay”.
A total of 19 related verses in this regard and completely related to this issue have been explicitly stated. Of course, there are other marginal issues in this issue and for the conditions of evolution and life in the Qur'an. In fact, God first stated the basic necessities of life and evolution in the Qur'an. Atomic evolution of space and the solar system and the chemical evolution of the earth. To be ready to accept life.
Which I did not say in this message.
I hope you read carefully the correct and up-to-date translation of the Qur'an that I said in these 4 messages for the creation of man and life by God. And get the answers to your questions.
Thank you
 
It is an accurate description of what you are actually doing, whether you realise it or not. The only arguably inaccurate word in it is 'deliberately', because it is entirely possible that you do not realise it. But at this point your ignorance can only be willful, so I still think it's fair to use it.

The use of the word 'magically' is entirely justified, because magic (i.e. some kind of supernatural phenomenon) is the only way the Qu'ran could contain knowledge of scientific discoveries that wouldn't be made for centuries. Which it doesn't, of course. Because there's no such thing as magic.

I hope your dear pixel thinks better of this.
"Magic" is not a supernatural phenomenon. No. Magic is just a hoax. Some people entertain people with magic and special skills. And they surprise them. Magic has no value. It's a completely childish game. Just for fun and to make others laugh. I expected more from you. I'm sorry.
"In the Qur'an, God has said many times that the disbelievers say what I say in the Qur'an is magic. !! While it is not magic. "To believe in God and the Qur'an.When the disbelievers see death, they will say, "Bring us back to this world." We want to believe in God and the Qur'an. But alas, it is too late. "And they will remain in singularity forever."
I love you all. I wish you a good fate. But unfortunately you do not want to ... I'm sorry.
 
Hello dear DaratThis is not a photo of my graduation poster. A family friendly chat in the best restaurants of the Iranian capital. Would you like me to upload a photo of my 40-year-old graduation poster?
 
I hope your dear pixel thinks better of this.
"Magic" is not a supernatural phenomenon. No. Magic is just a hoax. Some people entertain people with magic and special skills. And they surprise them. Magic has no value. It's a completely childish game. Just for fun and to make others laugh. I expected more from you. I'm sorry.
"In the Qur'an, God has said many times that the disbelievers say what I say in the Qur'an is magic. !! While it is not magic. "To believe in God and the Qur'an.When the disbelievers see death, they will say, "Bring us back to this world." We want to believe in God and the Qur'an. But alas, it is too late. "And they will remain in singularity forever."
I love you all. I wish you a good fate. But unfortunately you do not want to ... I'm sorry.

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/magic

1.
a. The art or practice of using charms, spells, or rituals to attempt to produce supernatural effects or control events in nature.
b. The charms, spells, and rituals so used.
2. The exercise of sleight of hand or conjuring, as in making something seem to disappear, for entertainment.
3. A mysterious quality of enchantment: "For me the names of those men breathed the magic of the past" (Max Beerbohm).
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or invoking the supernatural: "stubborn unlaid ghost / That breaks his magic chains at curfew time" (John Milton).
2. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.

You are talking about what is usually called stage magic, which is the second definition. I was using the word in its original, primary, meaning.

The only way the Qu'ran could contain references to scientific discoveries which had not yet been made is by the supernatural kind of magic.
 
God is the one who created you "In the soil". Then you evolved into a sperm. And the organs and other living characteristics formed in you. Then you were born in the form of a baby and .... Do you not reason in this process of life?


That looks as much like an inaccurate description of ontogeny as any kind of description of evolution.

And “God created you in the soil” is not the full description of abiogenesis you promised.
 
Heydarian said. " There are no superstitions in the Qur'an and the one God. Clean clean. Your problem is that you have seen the Qur'an and God and Islam as practiced by Muslims and Islamic governments. And so your judgment is based on your observations. While it is a pure mistake. The Qur'an - God and true Islam are 180 degrees different from what Muslims and Islamic governments practice."

So you know better than all the Islamic governments and other Muslims, do you?
 
Continued 3182
But the relevant verses:
The verses of the creation of man and life "in the mud" - 8 verses.
Sura 38, verse 71
إِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي خَالِقٌ بَشَرًا مِنْ طِينٍ God once addressed the forces and energies that I want to create man "in the mud."Sura 32, verse 7
الَّذِي أَحْسَنَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقَهُ وَبَدَأَ خَلْقَ الْإِنْسَانِ مِنْ طِينٍ God is the one who created everything. And the beginning of human creation has been "in the mud. "Sura 37, verse 11
فَاسْتَفْتِهِمْ أَهُمْ أَشَدُّ خَلْقًا أَمْ مَنْ خَلَقْنَا إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاهُمْ مِنْ طِينٍ لَازِبٍ So ask (the disbelievers who deny the creation of God) is it more difficult to create them, or the original creation that We created " in the sticky mud " of man?
Sura 6, verse 2
هُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ طِينٍ ثُمَّ قَضَى أَجَلًا وَأَجَلٌ مُسَمًّى عِنْدَهُ ثُمَّ أَنْتُمْ تَمْتَرُونَ God is the one who created you “ in the mud.” And then set a time limit for you to live. (Human life) Do you still have doubts?
Sura 7, verse 12
قَالَ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَلَّا تَسْجُدَ إِذْ أَمَرْتُكَ قَالَ أَنَا خَيْرٌ مِنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِنْ نَارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِنْ طِينٍ God said to Satan, who disobeyed God's command: What prevented you from carrying out my order? Satan said: You created me from fire and created man “in the mud.” So I am superior!
Sura 38, verse 76
قَالَ أَنَا خَيْرٌ مِنْهُ خَلَقْتَنِي مِنْ نَارٍ وَخَلَقْتَهُ مِنْ طِينٍSatan said: I am created from fire and therefore I am superior. And man was created “ in the mud.”Sura 23, verse 12
وَلَقَدْ خَلَقْنَا الْإِنْسَانَ مِنْ سُلَالَةٍ مِنْ طِينٍDo research to see that we created man “in pure mud.”...


OK, there is a great deal to say about what you have claimed above. But first I want to say that I am not going spend any time going through each verse, because really what you have done is just claim the exact same changes for every verse. But - the very first such translation from the very first Google search (i.e. found in less than 2 seconds) says this for your very first sentence -

https://legacy.quran.com/32/7


Sahih International 32:7
"Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay."


OK, so what you have done is changed the word “from”, and replaced it with “in”. Or to be more specific – you are copying the Islamic fundamentalist Ijaz preachers who started to make changes like that in the 1970's (or possibly earlier). That is – this idea of changing the words has not come from you … it was already being done by certain Islamic fundamentalist fanatics before you were even born! So you are just believing them and copying them.

But the essential and crucial question is – when did these fundamentalist Ijaz preachers start to change the words like that? Was it before or only AFTER Darwin told the world about evolution in 1859?

I suspect that all of these examples claiming modern science revealed in the Quran, only began to appear AFTER the scientific discoveries had been published, i.e. after everyone had already heard about it.

In other words, if we take evolution as our example – what the Ijaz fundamentalists are doing (and what you Heydarian are believing and copying from them), is that before Darwin told us all about evolution, none of those Islamic writers were saying that the words needed to be changed from “created Man from mud and clay” to change it to “made Man and started all life IN wet mud & clay” … they only started to make such changes when by about the 1950's to 1970's it had become clear even to Islam that they could no longer keep denying evolution or any other part of science, so they started to say that the words should be changed from saying that Allah had begun by creating a whole Man out of wet mud-clay, and changed that to claiming that the Quran should be re-interpreted and changed so that it said Allah had started living things IN some wet muddy clay!

The reason why they did that (obviously) is to avoid the fact that every discovery in modern science kept showing that the words, claims & beliefs of the Quran were certainly wrong/untrue. So in the 1970's with a book by a man named Maurice Bucaille (if I remeber his name correctly, and who I have mentioned here before several times), Islamic fundamentalists started to use a new approach called “Ijaz”, whereby they simply claimed the authority to “re-interpret” hundreds of passages of the Quran so that they sounded more as if they were talking about discoveries from modern science ...even so, not a single one of those re-interpreted sentences sounds much at all like modern-science, but at least some of it sounded like it might be a sort-of very vague cryptic mystical description that could be imagined by the faithful believers to be a bit like what has actually been discovered by 20th and 21st century science …

… that's what the Ijaz fundamentalists have been doing since at least that book of the 1970's. And that is what Heydarian has been doing all throughout his every post in this thread, i.e. just repeating and copying what is said in all of that Islamic Ijaz writing.

But apart from the fact that this Ijaz approach is a very obvious attempted fraud from it's very start, it is also so utterly incompetent and scientifically ignorant that it's claims do not work anyway.

For example Heydarian, you have your first sentence above, saying that “Allah created Man in the mud” … but that is NOT what science and evolution says. Humans were not created in any Mud! However, more than that – in science it is far from clear or agreed that the first organisms that could be classified as possibly or probably “living”, formed in any wet clay or mud. On the contrary, one of the more popular scientific models describes how life on Earth may have started deep under the seas in things called “hydrothermal vents”. And on top of that, it also remains possible that the first living organisms may even have been brought to this planet in meteorites, i.e. not having occurred naturally on earth at all. So it's far from clear or settled that life originally began in any wet clay/mud.

Even worse than that – AFAIK, evolution involves certain aspects of random chance such that if nature had taken a slightly different course around 5 to 10 million years ago, our very earliest and most distant ape relatives may never have taken that path of evolving towards humans. That is – evolution may never have progressed beyond the stage of our most primitive small related apes … or in other words – it's partly by accident or random chance that the course of mammalian evolution has ended up producing Homo Sapiens.

Of course what might be an even more obvious explanation for Heydarain and other unscientific theists who's beliefs seemingly cannot progress beyond religious superstitions of the 1st to 7th century, is that if any almighty God actually existed and actually wanted to create humans, then he could have just instantly created them by one his enormous list of unexplained but claimed “Miracles” … no superhuman God such as that described in the Quran (or the Bible) would need to create humans by starting 13.8 billion years ago with the Big Bang, and then hoping that 9 billion years later a planet we now call Earth would form somewhere amongst a trillion, trillion …. trillion other planets, stars and galaxies, and that on this one particular planet after about a further billion years the most primitive living cells would somehow form (how is not explained in the Quran) and would then take a further 3.5 billion years before almost entirely by chance and sheer luck some animals called homo sapiens eventually appeared.
 
And just to add something else to the above (in a thankfully much shorter post) -


- Heydarian - the link below describes some current research on hydrothermal vents and the possibility that the chemical processes which occur in those vents, might be the explanation of abiogenesis, i.e. the answer to how what we call “life” first began.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/hydrothermal-vents-and-the-origins-of-life/3007088.article

It's an interesting article anyway, and fairly easy to read/understand, so you'd probably do well to read that anyway regardless of anything that you or I or anyone else has ever said in this thread.
 
heydarian saeed, if man was created "in" clay where did the other animals come from? According to you, all life came from one basic cell structure? All of your verses do not mention animals.

God Allah did it. His ways are mysterious and beyond human understanding.

(Just ribbing you.)
 
You, Sir, pervert the Holy Word of the Lord. I, however, correctly interpret His meaning.

:dl:

Hello
You have a beautiful laugh. You are beautiful too. We are worried about your language.
No. I do not want to change the word of God.
This is a great sin. And its ruling is takfir. I just want to study modern science in the Qur'an. And to interpret and interpret the Qur'an up to date. This is a valuable work. And it is not against the word of God. And God loves it. The Qur'an must come out of scientific abandonment.
Thanks
 
OK, there is a great deal to say about what you have claimed above. But first I want to say that I am not going spend any time going through each verse, because really what you have done is just claim the exact same changes for every verse. But - the very first such translation from the very first Google search (i.e. found in less than 2 seconds) says this for your very first sentence -

https://legacy.quran.com/32/7


Sahih International 32:7
"Who perfected everything which He created and began the creation of man from clay."


OK, so what you have done is changed the word “from”, and replaced it with “in”. Or to be more specific – you are copying the Islamic fundamentalist Ijaz preachers who started to make changes like that in the 1970's (or possibly earlier). That is – this idea of changing the words has not come from you … it was already being done by certain Islamic fundamentalist fanatics before you were even born! So you are just believing them and copying them.

But the essential and crucial question is – when did these fundamentalist Ijaz preachers start to change the words like that? Was it before or only AFTER Darwin told the world about evolution in 1859?

I suspect that all of these examples claiming modern science revealed in the Quran, only began to appear AFTER the scientific discoveries had been published, i.e. after everyone had already heard about it.

In other words, if we take evolution as our example – what the Ijaz fundamentalists are doing (and what you Heydarian are believing and copying from them), is that before Darwin told us all about evolution, none of those Islamic writers were saying that the words needed to be changed from “created Man from mud and clay” to change it to “made Man and started all life IN wet mud & clay” … they only started to make such changes when by about the 1950's to 1970's it had become clear even to Islam that they could no longer keep denying evolution or any other part of science, so they started to say that the words should be changed from saying that Allah had begun by creating a whole Man out of wet mud-clay, and changed that to claiming that the Quran should be re-interpreted and changed so that it said Allah had started living things IN some wet muddy clay!

The reason why they did that (obviously) is to avoid the fact that every discovery in modern science kept showing that the words, claims & beliefs of the Quran were certainly wrong/untrue. So in the 1970's with a book by a man named Maurice Bucaille (if I remeber his name correctly, and who I have mentioned here before several times), Islamic fundamentalists started to use a new approach called “Ijaz”, whereby they simply claimed the authority to “re-interpret” hundreds of passages of the Quran so that they sounded more as if they were talking about discoveries from modern science ...even so, not a single one of those re-interpreted sentences sounds much at all like modern-science, but at least some of it sounded like it might be a sort-of very vague cryptic mystical description that could be imagined by the faithful believers to be a bit like what has actually been discovered by 20th and 21st century science …

… that's what the Ijaz fundamentalists have been doing since at least that book of the 1970's. And that is what Heydarian has been doing all throughout his every post in this thread, i.e. just repeating and copying what is said in all of that Islamic Ijaz writing.

But apart from the fact that this Ijaz approach is a very obvious attempted fraud from it's very start, it is also so utterly incompetent and scientifically ignorant that it's claims do not work anyway.

For example Heydarian, you have your first sentence above, saying that “Allah created Man in the mud” … but that is NOT what science and evolution says. Humans were not created in any Mud! However, more than that – in science it is far from clear or agreed that the first organisms that could be classified as possibly or probably “living”, formed in any wet clay or mud. On the contrary, one of the more popular scientific models describes how life on Earth may have started deep under the seas in things called “hydrothermal vents”. And on top of that, it also remains possible that the first living organisms may even have been brought to this planet in meteorites, i.e. not having occurred naturally on earth at all. So it's far from clear or settled that life originally began in any wet clay/mud.

Even worse than that – AFAIK, evolution involves certain aspects of random chance such that if nature had taken a slightly different course around 5 to 10 million years ago, our very earliest and most distant ape relatives may never have taken that path of evolving towards humans. That is – evolution may never have progressed beyond the stage of our most primitive small related apes … or in other words – it's partly by accident or random chance that the course of mammalian evolution has ended up producing Homo Sapiens.

Of course what might be an even more obvious explanation for Heydarain and other unscientific theists who's beliefs seemingly cannot progress beyond religious superstitions of the 1st to 7th century, is that if any almighty God actually existed and actually wanted to create humans, then he could have just instantly created them by one his enormous list of unexplained but claimed “Miracles” … no superhuman God such as that described in the Quran (or the Bible) would need to create humans by starting 13.8 billion years ago with the Big Bang, and then hoping that 9 billion years later a planet we now call Earth would form somewhere amongst a trillion, trillion …. trillion other planets, stars and galaxies, and that on this one particular planet after about a further billion years the most primitive living cells would somehow form (how is not explained in the Quran) and would then take a further 3.5 billion years before almost entirely by chance and sheer luck some animals called homo sapiens eventually appeared.

Hi
The meaning of your highlights is completely wrong.
... No, it is not as you say. First, bring your copy to be copied by religious preachers. You are more likely to be documented.
But to justify you, I need to tell you again.
From the Qur'anic point of view, human evolution is in 4 stages. And it is the special opinion of the Qur'an.human evolution began when matter came into being. That is, the logic of the Qur'an is that: The evolution of man and all living beings began from the time of the "Planck range". That is, long before the creation and life of the earth.
It may be very hard for you to believe this. But this is the logic of the Qur'an and us. Since the creation of matter, God has been planning all the needs of living things. And evolution begins.
The Qur'an categorically rejects the theory of "fixism". And we consider that theory obsolete. And my discussion is more about the impact of superstitions on the minds of translators and the inaccuracy of translations and interpretations.Darwin's theory is based on the principles of species adaptation in the process of evolution (species evolution), survival conflict, natural selection. Which added heredity and evolutionary mutation. Darwin traces the area to about 450 million years ago, beginning with the Bone owners Age. Has checked.
And made the possibility of analyzing fossils the basis of his theory. After Darwin, biologists based their findings on Darwin's evolutionary principles in the later periods of life.
And Darwin was the first to use this method.
The Qur'an is the Genesis of "Life" dates back to about 3 billion years ago. Since the creation of "water" which is the main source of life. It then examines the stages of earth formation and preparation for life. The history of the earth and living things after the creation of the earth can be searched in the earth. Thus, Darwin's theory differs from that of the Qur'an by two and a half billion years. And this time is not in Darwin's theory. Therefore, there is a time vacuum.This time frame is related to the scientific course of evolution. And there are big flaws in Darwin's theory. Which he has not dealt with. Our commentators on the Qur'an consider the Problems form of Darwin's theory to be disregard for human dignity. And discuss human evolution from apes. No. This is not a big drawback to Darwin's theory.

Rather, Darwin's Problem form is a scientific vacuum evolving over a period of 2.5 billion years. He has not said anything about it. The Qur'an fills this gap scientifically very accurately
.
And Darwin obeyed God. Of course, he replaced the "role of God" with the "choice of nature." While in the Qur'an we have many verses that follow and study this issue.
The advent of Adam is one of the highlights of the Qur'an.
Verse 33 of Sura 3 - Meaning: God chose Adam, Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imran over the worlds. They were all descendants of one another. "Therefore man is descended from the generation before him."

Rather, "Adam" came from the previous generation. And it is a more evolved stage than the previous stage. It does not occur independently and instantly. Rather, it is created by going through the process of "human" evolution.
We do not pay enough attention to the words of the Qur'an and its meaning.
All human beings were created from sperm. "So man was created from sperm. The first sperm of life was also created “in the clay”. It is the same as "eukaryote". Which is mentioned in the Qur'an as "Nafs Wahid نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ - ". And has been said 5 times. ( Sura 7, verse 189- Sura 6, verse 98- Sura 39, verse 6- Sura 4, verse 1- Sura 31, verse 28 )
And it has nothing to do with male water." There is no verse in the Qur'an that says: Man (human beings) were created from sperm after Adam. But
Says from the previous generation.
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Dear philosopher, your main problem is that you do not listen to all the words of the other party in your negotiation. And you judge soon. Secondly, you judge someone who speaks for God - the Qur'an and Islam - according to your own presuppositions. Please review and research the content fairly and wisely and then make a correct judgment. Please ...Thank you so much
 
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