The Jan. 6 Investigation

[arayder]

I agree. I personally think Ford set a terrible precedent with Nixon's preemptive pardon.

At the time I thought Nixon, whose guts I hated, had suffered enough and that dragging an ex-president through the courts might make it possible for a future government to do the same to an ex-president for purely political reasons.

I didn't foresee Trump.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 365 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

 

[sackett]

At the time I thought Nixon, whose guts I hated, had suffered enough and that dragging an ex-president through the courts might make it possible for a future government to do the same to an ex-president for purely political reasons.

I didn't foresee Trump.

I recall being contemptuously satisfied when Ford let Dick off. It was enough to have the sock cucker gone, and he could never look like a martyr.

Oh man, NOBODY could foresee Trumpf. But at least his likes will never pull it off again.

He said naively.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Sure we can follow the all the currents back to whatever butterfly flapped its wings but Trump it to blame for Trump, not the Nixon or the 60s are even the 80s.

 

[arayder]

At the time I thought Nixon, whose guts I hated, had suffered enough and that dragging an ex-president through the courts might make it possible for a future government to do the same to an ex-president for purely political reasons.

I didn't foresee Trump.

I recall being contemptuously satisfied when Ford let Dick off. It was enough to have the sock cucker gone, and he could never look like a martyr.

Oh man, NOBODY could foresee Trumpf. But at least his likes will never pull it off again.

He said naively.

It's worth noting that the impending impeachment and his subsequent resignation really hurt Nixon emotionally.

This stuff seems to bounce off Trump like spit balls.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 365 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

 

[slyjoe]

I recall being contemptuously satisfied when Ford let Dick off. It was enough to have the sock cucker gone, and he could never look like a martyr.

Oh man, NOBODY could foresee Trumpf. But at least his likes will never pull it off again.

He said naively.

There's been 1 martyr in the last 2000 years that mattered.

All these guys say "no one is above the law", but they sure don't seem to act it. We'll see what Garland does.

 

[crescent]

IMO, "2000 Mules" is to 2020 election fraud conspiracy what "Did We Land on the Moon?" is to Moon Landing Hoax conspiracy... I'll-informed, ignorant morons seeing things that aren't there because they lack the knowledge or experience to understand what they are looking at.

Or like "Loose Change" was to 9-11.

A big, well produced Gish Gallop. Make an hour or two of false claims supported by half truths, out of context statements and the like. By the time objective people have disproved all the significant claims, the believers have moved on anyway.

 

[bruto]

Either that or McConnell was a racist. Could be though he saw Obama ushering in a much too liberal for rich guys/pro business folks to tolerate.

Who knows how many closeted racists in the GOP overreacted to Obama's win.

As for extremists, that started when Rove courted the single issue anti-abortion voters. Somewhere in the the TEA party folks flourished.

Then there are the John Birchers (Kochs, Mercers) who do a lot of candidate funding.

It's odd, because McConnell's early career was pretty conspicuously anti-racist, but as he veered to the right he seems to have bought the whole package. If he's still the sort who would march on Washington with Dr. King, he's done a good job of stuffing that part of himself in the closet

 

[bruto]

I have seen some excerpts of 2000 Mules, and what I have seen is a load of dingo's kidneys.

1. They claim that 5G locates a cellphone to within 12-18 inches

- Rubbish: 5G is only accurate to within 35 feet (10 metres)
- Irrelevant: 5G was not fully rolled out by the time of the 2020 election anyway​

2. They claimed the average number of visits by a "mule" to a drop box was 38.

- None of the surveillance videos in the movie showed the same person more than once.​

3. They claimed that a woman wearing a face mask (to hide her identity ) and gloves (because fingerprints ) seen posting a ballot, is a "mule" because she put her gloves in a nearby bin and didn't look at the bin because she knew it was there.

- This is typical of what these morons call "evidence". Of course the 2020 election was taking place in the middle of a pandemic. The woman was most likely wearing gloves and face mask as a personal protective measure against COVID-19​

4. They claimed that two men in separate locations taking photos of themselves posting their ballot, was to provide evidence of the job done so the "mules" can get paid.

- no, seriously they are actually claiming this. Of course, ballot selfies are not uncommon
https://cheddar.com/media/voter-ballot-selfie-state-law-2020​

5. They claim that in surveillance footage from Georgia, people were "mules" because they were seen posting more than one ballot, is proof of voter fraud.

- No it isn't. The posting of completed ballots on behalf of a third party, is legal in several states, including Georgia! What about people posting ballots for the families or sick friend, or a wheelchair bound neighbour. Rest home staff often post ballots for residents who are not very mobile.​

6. They claim they have uncovered the potential existence of 380,000 fraudulent ballots, with falsified votes for Joe Biden

- here is what you have to do to forge a ballot
a. Obtain a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope to go with it.
b. Successfully forge the voter’s signature.
c. Deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
d. You have now committed a felony and cast one fraudulent ballot.
e. Rinse and repeat 379,999 times - each time under a different name with a different signature, spread over different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials. Where are you going to get these other 379,999 fraudulent ballot papers?
If there are 380,000 people who had their ballot collected and returned for nefarious reasons, there should be significant numbers of people willing to tell their story. It is hard for two people to keep a secret. Asserting that 380,000 people are keeping a secret is beyond credibility.​

And all this, all of the above I have written. Well, that's just for starters!

Apart from all the nonsense above, even if one were able to assert the existence of numerous fraudulent ballots, how could anyone know they were falsified for Biden, without breaking some pretty strict laws regarding the secrecy of ballots?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

One of the “great” things about Trump is his purity. If it benefits him, it’s legit; if it’s to his detriment, it’s a fraud/hoax/corrupt. Full stop, end of discussion.

He won the 2016 election, though lost the popular vote. Then he got some investigative committee or some such going once he took office. Because…of course the election was rigged!

One can almost admire his sickness.

 

[Horatius]

Yeah, but that does not change the fact that One Party Rule..no matter what the ideology of the party...and Democracy just do not go together. Power inevitably will corrupt the party in power.

The part you're overlooking is, if the GOP finally does implode and disappear as a political party, the Democrats will not remain a single party. There's enough difference of opinion within the Dems to encompass at least two parties, if not more.

We might get one election with a Unitary Democratic President, but that's it. The next election will have at least one candidate decide to split the party into the New Democratic Party.



Then we'll have lots of fun watching them explain that they're not actually Canadian.

 

[Suddenly]

It's odd, because McConnell's early career was pretty conspicuously anti-racist, but as he veered to the right he seems to have bought the whole package. If he's still the sort who would march on Washington with Dr. King, he's done a good job of stuffing that part of himself in the closet

The right has done a good job of, especially in their own minds, of reframing Dr. King as someone in favor of their "colorblind" idea of racism that if you ignore racism it doesn't exist.

Unlike those troublemaker BLM types, etc.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

One of the many things that I found so weird about Barr was how he testified that after the election, Trump was "detached from reality" and that is one of the reasons why Barr resigned as Attorney General.

However, Barr did not try to invoke the 25th amendment when he had a chance to do so, and later on, Barr stated the he would vote for Trump if Trump runs for office again.

As I result, I find Barr to be just another stupid, idiotic, lying, opportunistic, worthless, disgusting, Trump ass kissing Republican.

Not to mention anyone actually looking at Drumpf as Barr would have had an opportunity to do would have seen Drumpf was detached from reality long before the election fraud claims.

My guess is Barr realized with the fake electors and a few other Drumpf coup moves that this could not be erased the way Barr erased the Mueller report. Time to jump ship before it sinks.IMO Barr is simply trying to write himself a clean slate history when he knew full well his slate was as filthy as the rest of those in Drumpf's circle.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I agree. I personally think Ford set a terrible precedent with Nixon's preemptive pardon.

And Trump's continuing tactic to delay, and the courts' desire to settle, means there are no negative consequences.

And one note about Nixon's pardon, his enablers went to jail. They did not get pardons.

Another reason Barr checked out when he did.

And that glowing thank you letter to Drumpf when Barr resigned: maybe covering his bases if the coup succeeded. Barr did nothing to stop the coup attempt.

 

[arayder]

The part you're overlooking is, if the GOP finally does implode and disappear as a political party, the Democrats will not remain a single party. There's enough difference of opinion within the Dems to encompass at least two parties, if not more.

We might get one election with a Unitary Democratic President, but that's it. The next election will have at least one candidate decide to split the party into the New Democratic Party.

Then we'll have lots of fun watching them explain that they're not actually Canadian.

It was the difference of opinion on the wedge issue of slavery that broke up the Whigs.

What is the wedge issue that's going to split the Republicans? Abortion, guns, race? I think they are all on the same page on those issues.

So they split over the craziness of Trump? Trump who's a couple cheese burgers away from a heart attack or stroke? I figure the'll just wait him out and after he's gone they'll pay lip service to the Trump/Tea Party/QAnon faction the same way they did to the old Goldwater wing.

If Trumpism rules maybe a large part of present voter base of the Republican Party could leave, but they are not going to defect to the Democratic Party.

I suppose a group of moderate, non-Trumpy, Republicans could form a party and try to woo a block off moderates from the present democratic party.

But the newbie dems have to right on guns, unborn babies and blacks.

--------------
Dope Clock II: It's been 365 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.

 

[Horatius]

So they split over the craziness of Trump? Trump who's a couple cheese burgers away from a heart attack or stroke? I figure the'll just wait him out and after he's gone they'll pay lip service to the Trump/Tea Party/QAnon faction the same way they did to the old Goldwater wing.

The party leadership splitting is only one way for the party to die. Another is if their voters split. One thing that's been consistent for decades now is that the GOP generally pulls fewer votes than the Democrats (this is why the GOP has gone all-in on voter suppression and gerrymandering, after all).

So let's say the leaders do what you say - but the Crazy Wing voters don't fall for it. The Crazy Wing is easily half their voter base at this point - if they lose those votes, not even all their election rigging will let them win the next time. And a party that gets absolutely curb stomped in an election will often just collapse, as the few who remain start looking for other options.

It's not likely, but it's possible.

 

[arayder]

The party leadership splitting is only one way for the party to die. Another is if their voters split. One thing that's been consistent for decades now is that the GOP generally pulls fewer votes than the Democrats (this is why the GOP has gone all-in on voter suppression and gerrymandering, after all).

So let's say the leaders do what you say - but the Crazy Wing voters don't fall for it. The Crazy Wing is easily half their voter base at this point - if they lose those votes, not even all their election rigging will let them win the next time. And a party that gets absolutely curb stomped in an election will often just collapse, as the few who remain start looking for other options.

It's not likely, but it's possible.

The Whigs lost at the polls too, which sustains your point.

If I was running the Republican playbook I'd prescribe. . .support gun rights, oppose abortion, be "moderate" on the rights of people of color (you may want their votes). . .care about people, or at least act like you do. . .don't act crazy. . .practice competency in governance.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 365 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth..

 

[Stacyhs]

Not to mention anyone actually looking at Drumpf as Barr would have had an opportunity to do would have seen Drumpf was detached from reality long before the election fraud claims.

My guess is Barr realized with the fake electors and a few other Drumpf coup moves that this could not be erased the way Barr erased the Mueller report. Time to jump ship before it sinks.IMO Barr is simply trying to write himself a clean slate history when he knew full well his slate was as filthy as the rest of those in Drumpf's circle.

I agree. He's trying to re-write his own history.

 

[acbytesla]

Barr reminds me of NAZI General Dietrich von Choltitz. Choltitz surrendered Paris to Eisenhower's
But General Choltiz took credit for not turning Paris into ruins. Yet Choltitz had leveled many cities for Hitler. He didn't have the men or material to level the Paris.

Choltitz just tried to rewrite history. The same as Barr.

 

[dudalb]

From the transcript

REP ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA):
Well, thank — thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Stirewalt. I'd like you to explain a term that was thrown around a lot during the election and that's the so-called red mirage. What does that mean?

CHRIS STIREWALT: (Former Political editor at Fox News)
So in the 40 or 50 years, let's say, that Americans have increasingly chosen to vote by mail or early or absentee Democrats prefer that method of voting more than Republicans do.

So basically in every election, Republicans win Election Day and Democrats win the early vote, and then you wait and start counting. And it depends on which ones you count first, but usually it's Election Day votes that get counted first. And you see the Republicans shoot ahead. And then the process of — of bailing and binding and unbinding all those mail in votes in some states like Pennsylvania refused to count the votes first.

So you have to wait for all of that to come in. So in every election and certainly a national election, you expect to see the Republican with a lead, but it's not really a lead. When you put together a jigsaw puzzle, it doesn't matter which piece you put in first, it ends up with the same image. So for us, who cares?​

I really don't get why you do things this way.

Here, the counting of early votes, mail-in ballots (which must be postmarked no later than the day prior to the election) and special votes*, begins the moment the polls open at 7am on Election Day. By the time the polls close at 7pm, the vast majority of those votes and ballots have already been counted and tallied, so the the numbers hit the TV screens of the nation within a few minutes of each channel's "Decision 'YY" broadcasts beginning.

As soon as the Polling Booths close, a few members of the counting teams continue to count the remainder of the early/mail-in votes, while the rest begin counting the in-person votes for their electorate. Between 11pm and midnight on Election Day, 99% of ALL votes have been counted, and the result is known.

The only votes not counted on Election Day are valid mail-in votes that have not arrived, and overseas votes from NZ citizens outside of the country on Election Day.

Now, I can hear some of you already saying... "bbbbbut you only have about 3 million votes to count, we have 140 million - 45 times as many". While that is true, it is also true that you have 68 times our population, more than enough to get the job done. Even more importantly, we don't have voting machines. Every single one of those 3 million ballots are counted by hand.

*Special votes: These are votes by registered voters who were away from their electorate on polling day. They can go to any Polling Booth with their Voting Card and ID, and cast an absentee vote. (every Polling booth is equipped with every electoral roll and voting forms for every electorate in the country.

What works for one country might not work for every country.
I think your whole hand waving away the differences in population as to why the US does htink different the NZ is pretty questionable.
And in the US the states control the voting procedures, not the Federal Governemnt.

 

[smartcooky]

My guess is Barr realized with the fake electors and a few other Drumpf coup moves that this could not be erased the way Barr erased the Mueller report. Time to jump ship before it sinks.IMO Barr is simply trying to write himself a clean slate history when he knew full well his slate was as filthy as the rest of those in Drumpf's circle.

Not to mention that he could not have faced legal jeopardy for what he did with the Mueller Report, but assisting a president in overturning an election would be a different matter, and could have seen him criminally liable.

I think his motivation was more self-preservation than anything else.


ETA: Ninja'd by Ginger