Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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Warp12 said:
I keep seeing this sort of laughable commentary. "Look, this mass shooter had bad aim, so the actions aren't as significant/notable."

This idea must have been floated 10x in this thread, in various flavors, for various incidents. In fact, it is still being floated here whenever there is a shooting where only 1 or 2 die, but like 15 are injured. And those incidents are frighteningly common in comparison to spree shootings.

Amazing.
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I know, I'm dumb enough to be completely baffled at how shootings where very few people are injured, no one is killed, and the subject is caught alive get less coverage than those were multiple 10 year old children are slaughtered, the details of how it happened and why are completely unclear, as well.

Truly, truly mind boggling.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
And while you continue on your whataboutism binge, you continue to avoid the question, what do you propose as a solution?

I propose banning assault weapons and large ammo magazines. I propose raising the age one can buy a gun to 21, and increase background checks add a 3 day waiting/cooling off period before one can buy a gun. Close all the gun show loopholes in these laws.

Your turn.
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Start by defining "assault weapon".
 
catsmate said:
Start by defining "assault weapon".
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Any gun being discussed when someone tries to stop the discussion to define it.

Less flippantly. We had an assault weapons ban (that worked) before. Just use that definition again.
 
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plague311 said:
Is that it? There were "only" 129 mass shootings?

I haven't said **** all about how many there are, I was commenting on the fact that, when there are school mass shootings, they are done by white men more frequently than others.

By the way, quit telling me what makes you laugh like I give a **** at all. I don't care. If you think something is funny that usually means it's factually relevant and a solid statistic and doesn't have something racist in it. Seriously.
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The highlighted also makes me laugh, ironically. Preposterous assertion.

There has been significant discussion of how a "mass shooting" is classified as such. If you are using a very small pool of "qualifiying shootings", the data could say anything. In fact, I covered this in a recent post. There have been over 200 qualifying mass shootings so far this year alone, according to the definition utilized by the Gun Violence Archive.

GVA uses a purely statistical threshold to define mass shooting based ONLY on the numeric value of 4 or more shot or killed, not including the shooter. GVA does not parse the definition to remove any subcategory of shooting. To that end we don’t exclude, set apart, caveat, or differentiate victims based upon the circumstances in which they were shot.
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https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/methodology

I really don't think you have followed this thread much at all, based on the commentary. Hopefully the above shines some light on missed posts.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Any gun being discussed when someone tries to stop the discussion to define it.

Less flippantly. We had an assault weapons ban (that worked) before. Just use that definition again.
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Depends on what you mean by worked. It definitely lead to some weapons being banned, but the features banned by the AWB were largely aesthetic, not practical.

Take a look at the CETME-L or the Kel-tec RDB

https://marcolmarfirearms.com/shop/cetme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kel-Tec_RDB

This is commonly available in my state of Massachusetts and the only thing it needs done to be AWB compliant is to have a muzzle device that isn't a flash hider welded in place. I don't see how a shooting like Uvalde would have had a different outcome if this, or a mini 14, or any of the other box-fed semi-auto rifles that are AWB compliant.

It's worth pointing out that the Sandy Hook shooting occurred in a state that never repealed their own state-level assault weapons ban which had very similar language to the federal ban, and the AR-15 pattern rifle used was ban compliant.

Even if you're in favor of gun regulation, the assault weapons ban focus on largely cosmetic features like pistol grips or muzzle devices is largely ineffective. There are more ripe intrinsic features to focus on, like removable and large magazines and semi-auto functionality.
 
My point is the mythology that no clear definition of assault weapon is what is holding back gun laws is stupid.

Yes I'm aware of what an assault weapon actually is and I'm aware of how badly the Democrats and non-gun people often use the term.

That's not the issue right now for sane folks.
 
Warp12 said:
The highlighted also makes me laugh, ironically. Preposterous assertion.
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Yet, not a **** have I given.

Warp12 said:
There has been significant discussion of how a "mass shooting" is classified as such. If you are using a very small pool of "qualifiying shootings", the data could say anything. In fact, I covered this in a recent post. There have been over 200 qualifying mass shootings so far this year, alone, according to the definition utilized by the Gun Violence Archive.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/methodology
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If we used definition of 4 or more than pretty much everything Bogative linked means less than nothing. I think only 2 examples that he provided with regards to school mass shootings had more than 2 people involved. Anyway, sure, lets use that definition. What does that change?

Warp12 said:
I really don't think you have followed this thread much at all, based on the commentary. Hopefully the above shines some light on missed posts.
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Yes, I know. If someone disagrees with you then it's not because you're wrong, it's because the other person didn't follow the thread, or doesn't understand, or whatever else you make up to be the reason.

I'll redefine my position so that you and your ilk won't have any confusion. The overwhelming majority of mass murders at schools are committed by honkies. Does that help? Now you and he can team up and find some way to blame it on PoC. If there's one thing you can do, I have faith that you and Bogative can still find a way to throw PoC under the bus.
 
JoeMorgue said:
My point is the mythology that no clear definition of assault weapon is what is holding back gun laws is stupid.

Yes I'm aware of what an assault weapon actually is and I'm aware of how badly the Democrats and non-gun people often use the term.

That's not the issue right now for sane folks.
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Sure, but I'm not sure why you would cite the federal AWB if your goal is meaningful gun control regulation. The AWB is crap legislation that doesn't achieve its intended goals. In a hypothetical situation where there is enough political pressure to make a serious gun control bill pass, passing an AWB style bill would be a wasted opportunity. The gun market quickly responded to create and sell nearly identical firearms that were compliant with the law and were just as lethal as their pre-ban ancestors.

Unless you're talking about a hypothetical AWB that looks very, very different than the kinds that have come before.

ETA: The problem with prior assault weapon bans that have come before isn't that "assault weapon" is vaguely defined. The definition could not be more clear and determining what was or was not an assault weapon required only the ability to count to 2. The problem was that the definition was idiotic.
 
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plague311 said:
I'll redefine my position so that you and your ilk won't have any confusion. The overwhelming majority of mass murders at schools are committed by honkies. Does that help? Now you and he can team up and find some way to blame it on PoC. If there's one thing you can do, I have faith that you and Bogative can still find a way to throw PoC under the bus.
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Oh, I see the problem. You are having a discussion only about spree shootings at schools. I am having a discussion about the much larger and more serious of problem of mass shootings in general. And it seems Bogative is talking strictly about all types of school shootings, in this one instance.

School shootings are just a tiny drop in the bucket of mass shootings.
 
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"We can't stop these murders because there are so many other murders!"

Stunning. Simply stunning.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, but I'm not sure why you would cite the federal AWB if your goal is meaningful gun control regulation. The AWB is crap legislation that doesn't achieve its intended goals. In a hypothetical situation where there is enough political pressure to make a serious gun control bill pass, passing an AWB style bill would be a wasted opportunity.

Unless you're talking about a hypothetical AWB that looks very, very different than the kinds that have come before.
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It doesn't matter. Nothing is going to change.

If anything is passed between the House and Senate, rest assured it'll be ******* useless. It'll worth less than the paper it's written on because we will never, ever have meaningful gun control legislation pass in the US.

It's a useless discussion.
 
plague311 said:
It doesn't matter. Nothing is going to change.

If anything is passed between the House and Senate, rest assured it'll be ******* useless. It'll worth less than the paper it's written on because we will never, ever have meaningful gun control legislation pass in the US.

It's a useless discussion.
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No disagreement here, purely a thought experiment. Maybe you could see some more individual states trying to implement something like an AWB, but I'd say there's a good chance that the current SCOTUS means that even deep blue states are going to have their gun regulations relaxed by diktat.
 
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Warp12 said:
Oh, I see the problem. You are having a discussion only about spree shootings at schools. I am having a discussion about the much larger and more serious of problem of mass shootings in general. And it seems Bogative is talking strictly about all types of school shootings, in this one instance.

School shootings are just a tiny drop in the bucket of mass shootings.
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Awesome, it's always nice when you guys straight up say that you weren't actively addressing the point I was making.

I understand your bull **** reasoning of "school shootings aren't the problem." You act as if we can't focus on it because there are other mass shootings elsewhere under different circumstances.

No one here is saying that we can't focus on all shootings, and resolutions to them. The only reason you want to do that is because it opens everything up for you to bitch and moan about black-on-black crime.

After all, you've been asked repeatedly for any solution and you've handwaved it away. You have nothing other than whining. That's it and that's all it will ever be.
 
And that's why nothing will change.

I'm sure storming the Capital and getting away with it seemed impossible to Qanon in 2019 but they stuck with it.

Good people give up so much faster than bad ones. I hate that I live in world where stupid evil wrongness is a battery that doesn't run out.

And I don't say that with smugness or snark. I sympathize. Hell I agree.
 
Warp12 said:
Who is saying that?? Odd comment and interpretation.
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You are. And then lying about saying it.

Because you're wrong. And know it. And can only distract because you don't have a point outside of your little edgy routine.
 
Warp12 said:
The above makes zero sense.
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Well but again you don't understand why killing black people is a crime and 20 dead kids is something to worry about it so... what makes sense to you has absolutely no bearing on the world because, and I can't stress this enough you (or to be fair the made up internet persona you're playing) is wrong about literally everything.
 
plague311 said:
After all, you've been asked repeatedly for any solution and you've handwaved it away. You have nothing other than whining. That's it and that's all it will ever be.
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This is also untrue. I suggested three areas of focus, to start: gun control, poverty, and a culture that glorifies violence. The response to that has largely been crickets, as expected.

As previously stated, I don't have to fix the problem single-handedly. The idea is to discuss it, and recognize that it is a much more significant problem than the occasional spree shooting.

The only handwaving being done is when some people have dismissed these black-on-black mass shootings as acceptable because the perpetrators and some involved are sometimes criminals or gang members.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Well but again you don't understand why killing black people is a crime and 20 dead kids is something to worry about it so... what makes sense to you has absolutely no bearing on the world because, and I can't stress this enough you (or to be fair the made up internet persona you're playing) is wrong about literally everything.
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This also makes zero sense.

Of course 20 dead kids is something to worry about...but it is statistically insignificant when we look at the big picture of mass shootings, gun crimes, and homicides in the US.

Of course killing black people is and should be a crime.

Seriously, I don't understand what you are talking about.
 
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