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Differences in Sex Development (aka "intersex")

Robin said:
People will say they think that there are only two genders,
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Not that many.

There are 2 sexes.

On gender, it is more likely that people will either say there are multiple genders; or that gender identity is meaningless.

I think that only those who think sex and gender are synonymous will argue that there are only 2 genders.

this and many subsequent posts moved from the being Agender thread

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359274

Posted By: jimbob
 
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Manger Douse said:
If you had a better one you'd have given it

So why did you bring it to in this thread if it's not the topic?
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If we're not discussing it because it's not on topic then fine, but I'll just add myself to the group of rational people who know that there are only and exactly two (2) sexes.

There is not a third type of gamete. There is not a third developmental pathway. I think it's really sad to see that organsiations (ostensibly) devoted to critical thinking have become as captured by Stonewall dogma as the criminal justice and educational systems, and thus prepared to promote a fallacy.
 
Is it just me, or is it really fascinating how a discussion of gender always comes right back around to matters of sex? This thread started out being about eschewing gender stereotypes, and one page later it's all about penises.
 
theprestige said:
Is it just me, or is it really fascinating how a discussion of gender always comes right back around to matters of sex? This thread started out being about eschewing gender stereotypes, and one page later it's all about penises.
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It's perfectly simple. There is a subset of people who demand that their adoption of a particular gender entitles them to claim all the privileges of a particular sex. If they didn't do that, we wouldn't have a problem and the discussion would be largely abstract.
 
Manger Douse said:
The link you originally posted was titled "The idea of two sexes is overly simplistic" not genders as you just Googled. It still remains a crap article
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Ah, so you are someone who still preserves the outdated hard separation between "sex" and "gender". My mistake. I will modify my future statements accordingly.

Maybe this is more to your approval?
 
arthwollipot said:
Ah, so you are someone who still preserves the outdated hard separation between "sex" and "gender". My mistake. I will modify my future statements accordingly.

Maybe this is more to your approval?
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Not really no - the first New York Times article is about intersex who are either male or female, the rest, suprise suprise, seem to be about gender, not sex (like your original article was)
 
Manger Douse said:
Not really no - the first New York Times article is about intersex who are either male or female, the rest, suprise suprise, seem to be about gender, not sex (like your original article was)
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Wait - you think that all intersex conditions still fall into the gender binary? :confused: You're going to have to walk me through that logic. If they are all either male or female, then they're not intersex. Because that's what "intersex" means.
 
arthwollipot said:
Wait - you think that all intersex conditions still fall into the gender binary? :confused: You're going to have to walk me through that logic. If they are all either male or female, then they're not intersex. Because that's what "intersex" means.
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No, they fall into the sex binary. There is no third sex nor half and half sex - you and the TRA's here would have posted a link to such a person long ago
 
One of the problems with the hard distinction between "sex" and "gender" is definitional. When you say that "sex is binary", what exactly are you talking about? Are you talking about chromosomal sex? Gonadal sex? Urogenital sex? Endocrinal sex? Neurological sex? There are variations to the binary distribution in all these cases.

Biological sex, whatever you are specifically referring to, falls into a bimodal distribution. The majority of people fall at one or the other of the peaks. But there are people in between. There are a wide variety of natural conditions that make a full binary separation problematic.

In short: the existence of intersex conditions disproves the biological sex binary.

Here are a few more links to support that conclusion:

Sex Chromosome Abnormalities (Wiley)

Sex redefined (Nature)

Genetics of Disorders of Sex Development (Endocrinol Metab Clin North Am, acknowledging that some people consider the term "Disorder of sex development" (DSD) problematic)

How sexually dimorphic are we? Review and synthesis (Wiley)

It's worth quoting the abstract of that last one:

The belief that Homo sapiens is absolutely dimorphic with the respect to sex chromosome composition, gonadal structure, hormone levels, and the structure of the internal genital duct systems and external genitalia, derives from the platonic ideal that for each sex there is a single, universally correct developmental pathway and outcome. We surveyed the medical literature from 1955 to the present for studies of the frequency of deviation from the ideal male or female. We conclude that this frequency may be as high as 2% of live births. The frequency of individuals receiving “corrective” genital surgery, however, probably runs between 1 and 2 per 1,000 live births (0.1–0.2%). Am. J. Hum. Biol. 12:151–166, 2000. © 2000 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
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Manger Douse said:
No, they fall into the sex binary. There is no third sex nor half and half sex - you and the TRA's here would have posted a link to such a person long ago
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I'm sorry, I used the wrong term again. I meant to say sex binary, as I hope is clear from my next post. And you've used a term that I'm not familiar with. What is TRA?
 
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