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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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Meadmaker said:
They also get angry at people who do a really bad job and they believe people died as a result.



Are they being fair to the cops by believing they could have saved lives had they acted differently? I don't know the answer to that. However, there will be an investigation, and there will also be independent investigation and discussions in the news media, and people with expertise will chime in and we will put all the information we know together. And, when it's all said and done, I'll bet the general consensus will be that the cops handled the situation poorly and should have moved in sooner. For the moment, that's just a hunch, based on incomplete data,but it sure seems to me like leaving a gunman alive for 40 minutes in a roomful of dead, dying, and some fully alive and unwounded children was a bad idea.

I'm glad I don't have to make judgement calls like that on my job, because I would be afraid that I might screw up just as badly as they seem to have. It's why I didn't go to medical school. I didn't want the responsibility.
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Exactly. It may turn out that they screwed the pooch on this one. We just don't know until the investigation is completed. My main objection is the number of people who are using this as an opportunity to spew their general anti-police, let's-paint-all-cops-as cowardly-corrupt-lying-vermin venom when they don't know the facts yet. It's just pathetic.
 
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mgidm86 said:
Glad I didn't have to grow up in todays school system

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-thursday/index.html




We had Earthquake drills when I was in school.

"What a country!!!"
- Yakov Smirnoff
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I wonder if overtraining contributed to the problem. Were they busy following the plan instead of reacting to the real situation before them?

As an old saw about war goes, battle plans never survive contact with the enemy. I think that's probably true even if the enemy is a lone gunman.

Speculation on my part, but I see some of these massive security programs as "We have to do something. This is something." The bottom line is that it's pretty easy to kill people if you are heavily armed and have the element of surprise. Sometimes I wonder if all of these active shooter drills and other measures are contributing to ideation more than security.
 
lionking said:
And you are excusing the inexcusable.

You mentioned a 9/11 responder in an earlier post. Yes, a brave and honourable officer. Exactly the opposite of the cops here.

And before you say “yes another cop hater” I worked for an Australian police force for 10 years and my son-in-law is a cop.
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You're misstating my position. I'm not "excusing" anything. I am, and have always said, don't judge before we have all the facts in. Or do you think all the facts are in already?


ETA: Do you think Capt. Swoop's and others' generalized diatribes against the police in general are correct? That's what I'm objecting to also.
 
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Stacyhs said:
You didn't answer my question: who would you want to respond if you had someone breaking into your house?

Yeah, they're all a bunch of corrupt, lying, cowardly asses. Every single one of them! :rolleyes: Look at these jerks:

MOIRA SMITH, NYPD
Smith was the only female officer among the 23 NYPD cops who died on 9/11. She led countless injured people from the twin towers. But, in the end, died with so many other heroes in the effort to rescue more.

Sheriff's Deputy Sgt. Barbara Fenley died Thursday night while trying to save others from one of the many wildfires sweeping through the central and western parts of Texas, the sheriff's office said Friday.

Police officer Eric Mumaw "died while trying to rescue a suicidal woman from falling into a river."

Aaron Salter
Retired Buffalo police officer who confronted supermarket gunman hailed as 'true hero'

Five Phoenix police officers were shot and injured, and a woman was shot and killed during an early morning barricade situation, the department said.When an officer approached to help, the suspect, an adult man, invited the officer inside, said Phoenix police spokesman Andy Williams.

As the officer approached the door, "the suspect ambushed him with a gun and shot him several times," Williams said. "That officer was able to get back and get away to safety."

Off. Jesse Mattson:
"Within a matter of moments, the life of a Tampa police officer – a 16-year veteran of the force and U.S. Marine Corps veteran – was cut short in a wrong-way crash, and investigators believe he purposely veered into the oncoming vehicle to save others." "...a seven-time recipient of the Tampa Police Department's Life-Saving Award."
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and?
 
I forgot if I read it here or on Twitter, sorry,am tired:

There's a good chance that the shooter himself participated in quite the number of lockdown drills and therefore knew about the weak points.
 
Stacyhs said:
Untrue. The 'facts' are not the understandable but unproven claims of scared parents in the parking lot. What was a 'fact' yesterday or earlier today is not found to be a 'fact' by this afternoon.
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I'm going off police statements, not scared parents. Stop making things up.

No one was "philosophizing" in the parking lot. It's called assessing the situation. You sound like the typical armchair whatever: pronouncing what "should have happened" even though we don't know what "did" happen yet.
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You assess the situation in about four ******* seconds in an emergency, not 40 ******* minutes. 40 ******* minutes is the most lacadasical of response time to an active shooter in a ******* occupied elementary school. Jesus, what is wrong with you?

What a silly thing to say. It's obvious you have a beef with police in general and are projecting that onto this for your own satisfaction.
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My beef with police in general is that they continually do...let's see, it's right on the top of my tongue...oh, yes:**** like this, while drawing weapons on me repeatedly for working at night.

I have never, ever, not even once, had police get involved in something and it turned out better for anyone. 19 sets of parents in Texas know where I'm coming from on that point.
 
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Thermal said:
I'm going off police statements, not scared parents. Stop making things up.



You assess the situation in about four ******* seconds in an emergency, not 40 ******* minutes. 40 ******* minutes is the most lacadasical of response time to an active shooter in a ******* occupied elementary school. Jesus, what is wrong with you?



My beef with police in general is that they continually do...let's see, it's right on the top of my tongue...oh, yes:**** like this, while drawing weapons on me repeatedly for working at night.

I have never, ever, not even once, had police get involved in something and it turned out better for anyone. 19 sets of parents in Texas know where I'm coming from on that point.
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Yeah, OK...you've made your personal dislike of police very clear.


I'm finding it rather pathetic that some here cannot seem to differentiate between saying that we should wait until the investigation is over to determine if the police were wrong and somehow 'excusing' the police. Isn't that what investigations are for? To determine the facts?
 
Stacyhs said:
I have suggested from the beginning that we just wait and see what the investigation shows instead of going into an immediate condemnation.
That just seems like common sense to me.
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I don't know how much you follow the threads in this part of the forum...but condemning cops before the full evidence has been reviewed is de rigueur around here.

It is on full display here, along with the typical misguided cop hate. So much for critical analysis.
 
Warp12 said:
I don't know how much you follow the threads in this part of the forum...but condemning cops before the full evidence has been reviewed is de rigueur around here.

It is on full display here, along with the typical misguided cop hate. So much for critical analysis.
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Dogwhistle for "I will happily regurgitate every right wing lie that exists but throw a hissy fit when someone insults my holy cops. They are the last line between us and the non whites trying to kill us all!"
 
Stacyhs said:
Yeah, OK...you've made your personal dislike of police very clear.


I'm finding it rather pathetic that some here cannot seem to differentiate between saying that we should wait until the investigation is over to determine if the police were wrong and somehow 'excusing' the police. Isn't that what investigations are for? To determine the facts?
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Hey, I learned how to drop the Gavel upon opening statements right here on the ISF. I can point out half a dozen posters on this very thread who lead by example in fully condemning early and often.

The facts being criticized are coming straight from the police, as seems to keep slipping your mind. Do we have to wait for a cure for dementia till they tell the truth? Might take a while.
 
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Didn't we all just watch a video where a Uvalde LEO admits that officers went inside to rescue their own kids?

https://www.yourtango.com/news/uval...-kids-robb-elementary-before-stopping-shooter

The officer said, “There [were] some police officers' families trying to get their kids out of school because it was an active shooter situation.”
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He then babbles on trying to justify it.

I'm still getting caught up on the timeline, of course which timeline I should believe is another matter.

Different article
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/25/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-what-we-know/index.html

There were no officers at the school when the gunman arrived, Escalon said, walking back earlier information put out by his agency that the gunman first encountered an armed school resource officer.

DPS officials had previously said the gunman was "engaged" by a school officer, and that the gunman dropped a black bag full of ammunition outside the school during that encounter.

That earlier information was "not accurate," Escalon told reporters, and nobody confronted the shooter from the time he left his grandmother's house to the time he entered the school. The shooter, he said, "walked in unobstructed, initially."
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Not accurate? Pretty detailed for something that never happened. The police union will clear this up, non doubt.

Keeps reading....

Escalon said it appears the suspect walked through an unlocked door, "so, we are going to look at that and try to corroborate that as best we can."

"We will find out, as much as we can, why it was unlocked, or maybe it was locked. But right now it appears it was unlocked," he said.

That door is "typically locked," said Ross McGlothlin, a former principal for the school. "It's an exterior door that you don't need to go to unless you're leaving to go home on a school bus," McGlothlin told CNN on Thursday.
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Schools fault! Sounds like he took speaking lessons from a certain ex-Pres.
 
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Thermal said:
Hey, I learned how to drop the Gavel upon opening statements right here on the ISF. I can point out half a dozen posters on this very thread who lead by example in fully condemning early and often.

The facts being criticized are coming straight from the police, as seems to keep slipping your mind. Do we have to wait for a cure for dementia till they tell the truth? Might take a while.
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And, of course, an investigation by the very police who stood by with hands in pockets is certain to reveal the facts.
 
I'm going to state my position on this very clearly as some have either misunderstood it or made false assumptions:

1. I do not know if the police action was correct or not.

2. I am not 'excusing' or 'defending' their actions but neither am I condemning it.

3. I think judging whether their actions were appropriate or not should wait until the investigation concludes exactly what happened and why.

4. I do object to some members projecting their personal dislike of police onto these officers and judging them before knowing all the facts. Anyone claiming they have not made that personal dislike...even hatred for some... clear is not being honest.
 
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