EaglePuncher
Banned
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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)
- Thread starter tyr_13
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Disbelief
Illuminator
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- Mar 27, 2007
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shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
So the cops outsourced the job! If Border Patrol hadn't been there, the shooter would probably still be in the classroom!
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Nessie
Penultimate Amazing
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That makes sense.
lobosrul5
Philosopher
If he was still president I think perhaps Federal law would come into play and they'd have no choice... but he isn't anymore. He's just a hypocritical pussy. That everyone on the right can't see that by now is just... **** i have no words. This guy is probably going to be president again in 2 and a half years.
Gun-free zones are feel good liberal policies except when my personal safety is at stake.
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Using a key doesn't seem like a bad option compared to other methods that may take more time and draw more attention (and gunfire). I mean, it doesn't fit the movie version...but few tactical plans will, I imagine.
Thermal
August Member
We should take a moment to honor the brave children who laid down their lives in defense of the freedoms afforded by the Second Amendment.
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
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Can't expect local cops to know how to get or use a key.
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
A local news station interviewed one of the surviving children. Obviously he couldn't give very comprehensive information but the few things he was able to tell are very interesting.
Apparently the shooter was not "contained/barricaded/locked/whatevered" in a single classroom, but rather two classrooms. The survivor says that his classroom and the next one over were adjoined by an interior door, and the shooter was able to come through it and attack his classroom as well as the other one. He and a couple of friends survived by hiding under a table covered with a long tablecloth.
He also gave this detail:
Unbelievable.
Apparently the shooter was not "contained/barricaded/locked/whatevered" in a single classroom, but rather two classrooms. The survivor says that his classroom and the next one over were adjoined by an interior door, and the shooter was able to come through it and attack his classroom as well as the other one. He and a couple of friends survived by hiding under a table covered with a long tablecloth.
He also gave this detail:
Unbelievable.
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Thermal
August Member
"Hey, we got the key, Bob. You rock on up to that door and unlock it."
I mean, I'm no tactical specialist, but that seems a bit pedestrian, and about as suicidal a move that I could picture.
Just register the Hi-Power w/stock as a short barreled rifle and it's legal. Yes, the laws are complex.
Yeah, I know that, but getting the federal permit isn't quite that easy. It requires a fingerprint background check and LE approval, and states can still ban them. And as I understand it, pre-1986 machine guns are wildly expensive because of limited supply, and buying a post-1986 gun requires an FFL. Not options for the average crazy shooter. It's not quite like waltzing into a storefront and dancing out with an AR15 and all the rounds you can carry.
How so? Do you think it would be safer, more stealth, and quicker to use a battering device? Are you picturing some explosives being a better option? Maybe an axe?
Again we can just ask one of the dozens of other countries that don't have a 10+ murder incident every other week what they do and do that.
Stop acting like we don't have any example of sane gun laws that work.
Stop acting like we don't have any example of sane gun laws that work.
Meadmaker
Unregistered
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Well, as I said, I'm glad I don't have to make that kind of decision at my job.
I can easily see someone thinking it was a good idea to find survivors as quickly as possible, especially if the gunman wasn't immediately visible.
It didn't work out so well, though. This girl apparently survived the ordeal, at least right up until the last minute when the cops were in the room.
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
I don't think stealth was a priority. The shooter was actively killing people, and was already aware the police were there.
If they believed there were still survivors in the classroom(s) that could be saved, actively drawing the shooter's attention away from those survivors and onto the shielded and armored tactical team seems like it would be a desirable thing. In its self-congratulatory tweet the agency explicitly claimed that they successfully "drew the attacker's attention".
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Yeah, maybe using a key was the right move, but why did it take 40+ minutes? And if the lock was in the doorknob rather than a deadbolt, as is likely, the knob could be knocked off in an instant with a sledge hammer or twisted off with a pipe wrench. It sounds like the cops weren't eager to move.
The fire department can cut cars apart, cut down trees. The cops can use that equipment to cut around the door lock.
If it takes 30 to find the key vs 5 minutes for the cops to get the saw off the fire truck, the choice is easy.
He'll shoot at the sawyer - but the door is that solid then it will probably slow down and deform the bullets enough for the body armor to be able to do its job, and the other cops can try to distract the shooter with tear gas, flash bangs and other such things via the windows.
Or, just go in through the windows.
Not the safest thing, but nobody forced them to sign up to be cops. The public did, however, trust that the cops would do what they were hired to do. It's a social contract sort of thing.
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