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Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

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Warp12 said:
This requires a specialized response. Sure, some random people might be willing to run into an active combat zone unarmed and/or without a plan. That is a great way to stack up more dead bodies.

I think there is a big difference between calling the cops unprepared and calling them "cowards". And, obviously more details are needed.
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The Border Patrol guys didn't seem to need an hour long contemplation period. They ran right by the cops cold and took care of business despite having fewer numbers and equipment. How many more children would this loser bitch have shot if they didn't show up?

Who do you suppose drills for school shooting scenarios more often, police or Border?

eta: your quote says the cops followed him right into the elementary school, and when he shot, they beat feet to safety, leaving the active shooter alone with the victims. Jesus, dude, that's so much worse.
 
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Checkmite said:
Confusing everything, and not mentioned in the Vice article, is reports that mainstream outlets began circulating around the time of the first press conferences, telling a story about a lone Border Patrol agent who was nearby and "rushed into the school without waiting for backup and shot and killed the gunman".
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I called that guy a hero in this thread, echoing someone else's comment.


It's a pity he didn't exist. It made for a much better story than the one that is unfolding.


I am glad I have my job instead of theirs. I would hate to risk my life and know that if make a mistake, people die. It's a lot simpler when if I make a mistake at work, there's money that goes into account A instead of account B. Nevertheless, that's the way it is. That is their job, and people will judge them. In this case, when it's all done, I don't think many medals are going to be handed out. I'm still glad they were there. I still admire their willingness to put their lives on the line. In this case, though, it's looking like maybe they could have done better.
 
Thermal said:
The Border Patrol guys didn't seem to need an hour long contemplation period. They ran right by the cops cold and took care of business despite having fewer numbers and equipment. How many more children would this loser bitch have shot if they didn't show up?

Who do you suppose drills for school shooting scenarios more often, police or Border?
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I would double check on that border patrol story. Pretty much everything the cops have said so far about how the handled the situation has been revealed to have been a lie. Every update on the story reveals they behaved even worse than previously believed.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
They're exercising their SCOTUS affirmed right to not risk their lives to help the public.

All this macho horsecrap about warrior cops in this country and public tolerance for roided up racists gunning down unarmed people for furtive movements, but when a rare moment actually comes when you need trigger pullers, they're too afwaid to do anything.

This exact scenario has been repeated enough times to prove this point. Cops won't move in to stop a shooter until they have overwhelming force, such as a SWAT team, which means any schoolhouse killer is going to have more than enough time to rack up double digit body counts. Nothing has changed since Columbine.
These cowards should be publicly shamed for the rest of their lives until they finally do the right thing and off themselves....
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It looks like they did nothing except keep parents back for 40 min while shots could be heard. THAT needs to come out and amplified.
 
Do police officers to undergo training on dealing with active shooters and do they do any exercises at their local schools, so they are familiar with the buildings?
 
Bob001 said:
Aw, c'mon. What's your point? How do you compare a sniper selecting a single distant target from concealment to somebody going into a classroom, probably about 30-feet square, and opening fire at very close range with a rapid-fire semi-auto loaded with a 30-round magazine? How long do you think it would take to fire 30 rounds from a bolt-action deer rifle? Have you actually used guns?
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lobosrul5 said:
I mean in this case he certainly had time to fire way more than 30 rounds from a bolt-action rifle, whether made for deer hunting or not.
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The answer has to be "No, I have not actually used guns."

Studying whether somebody might practice up enough so as to kill several people with a bolt action sniper rifle while copy cat school shooters load up on semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines is analysis-paralysis taken to the absurd.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I would double check on that border patrol story. Pretty much everything the cops have said so far about how the handled the situation has been revealed to have been a lie. Every update on the story reveals they behaved even worse than previously believed.
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Well yeah, but the BP running in guys hurts the local yokels more than any other element of the story.

I have a feeling the loser bitch stopped shooting because he ran out of ammo (he dropped a backpack with his extra mags before getting into the school). Sort of sounds like the Border Patrol guys finished it without taking fire? Speculation, of course.
 
Thermal said:
The Border Patrol guys didn't seem to need an hour long contemplation period. They ran right by the cops cold and took care of business despite having fewer numbers and equipment. How many more children would this loser bitch have shot if they didn't show up?

Who do you suppose drills for school shooting scenarios more often, police or Border?
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Well, again...it seems to me that the cops were not well-prepared. I think calling them cowards is really taking the easy way out of analyzing a very complex and difficult situation. Probably if the border patrol guys got shot dead and this psycho shot 10 more kids, people would say, "Why did they rush in without a plan? What were they thinking? They were brave but stupid, and it cost more lives".
 
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Nessie said:
My point is that before any action is taken on specific types of gun, research should be conducted to see to what effect that will have.
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How much research is needed? Every mass shooting in recent decades has been conducted with semi-auto weapons, not revolvers, not bolt-action rifles. Does real-world evidence count?
 
Warp12 said:
I knew it wouldn't be long before some were pointing fingers at the cops.

In a way it is a shame that an officer of any kind bothered to kill the shooter. Let's just let these things take their course next time and see how the result might be different.
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That's what the cops did for 40 minutes. We can see what happened.

I gave the cops the benefit of the doubt until video turned up showing they waited outside for 40 minutes while you could hear the gunshots.
 
Meadmaker said:
I called that guy a hero in this thread, echoing someone else's comment.


It's a pity he didn't exist. It made for a much better story than the one that is unfolding.

I am glad I have my job instead of theirs. I would hate to risk my life and know that if make a mistake, people die. It's a lot simpler when if I make a mistake at work, there's money that goes into account A instead of account B. Nevertheless, that's the way it is. That is their job, and people will judge them. In this case, when it's all done, I don't think many medals are going to be handed out. I'm still glad they were there. I still admire their willingness to put their lives on the line. In this case, though, it's looking like maybe they could have done better.
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Wait, what? That didn't happen?
 
Warp12 said:
Well, again...it seems to me that the cops were not well-prepared. I think calling them cowards is really taking the easy way out of analyzing a very complex and difficult situation. Probably if the border patrol guys got shot dead and this psycho shot 10 more kids,.people would say, "Why did they rush in without a plan? What were they thinking? They were brave but stupid, and it cost more lives".
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A cop that immediately ran into the situation with no concern for their own life and got shot dead trying to end a school shooting would be treated as a national hero. They might even get a state funeral. There's no polishing this turd.
 
Cain said:
Since Columbine, the guidance has been that law enforcement enters the school pronto. That's one of the arguments for having a cop on site -- to engage the shooter. Not to drive to the local donut shop and explain the situation to fellow officers.
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Exactly! That's the job and that's the way it is supposed to be done.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 346 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
Bob001 said:
How much research is needed? Every mass shooting in recent decades has been conducted with semi-auto weapons, not revolvers, not bolt-action rifles. Does real-world evidence count?
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If I am planning to shoot up a school and I can't get a semi-auto, I am just canceling the plan. "I mean, yeah, I'm a deadly psycho killer who wants to mass-murder schoolchildren...but with a pistol, shotgun, or bolt action rifle? That would really be crazy!"
 
I saw a youtube video, from a local news outlet, of an interview with a survivor.

It was very brief. The survivor was one of the students, 10 years old. When they heard shots, he told two friends to hide. Apparently there was a table with a floor length tablecloth in the room. The three of them hid under it. They remained undetected the entire time. I can't imagine three 10 year olds remaining silent for that long. It's pretty amazing.
 
Thermal said:
Well yeah, but the BP running in guys hurts the local yokels more than any other element of the story.

I have a feeling the loser bitch stopped shooting because he ran out of ammo (he dropped a backpack with his extra mags before getting into the school). Sort of sounds like the Border Patrol guys finished it without taking fire? Speculation, of course.
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Whether they did or didn't take fire, they got the job done while the cops did nothing. If this turns out to be true, every cop there needs to be fired and replaced, and face any appropriate criminal charges.
 
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