Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (2)

[Nessie]

You just want all private ownership of guns banned, period.
That will never ,every happen in the US. It just politiclly impossible.
Anyway, the real problem is with assault weapons. Let's concentrare on that.

In my old job I used to grant and renew firearms licences. I only ever refused three, two because of mental health issues and one because of his previous criminal offences. I granted hundreds.

 

[Nessie]

Aw, c'mon. What's your point? How do you compare a sniper selecting a single distant target from concealment to somebody going into a classroom, probably about 30-feet square, and opening fire at very close range with a rapid-fire semi-auto loaded with a 30-round magazine? How long do you think it would take to fire 30 rounds from a bolt-action deer rifle? Have you actually used guns?

My point is that before any action is taken on specific types of gun, research should be conducted to see to what effect that will have.

 

[lobosrul5]

Aw, c'mon. What's your point? How do you compare a sniper selecting a single distant target from concealment to somebody going into a classroom, probably about 30-feet square, and opening fire at very close range with a rapid-fire semi-auto loaded with a 30-round magazine? How long do you think it would take to fire 30 rounds from a bolt-action deer rifle? Have you actually used guns?

I mean in this case he certainly had time to fire way more than 30 rounds from a bolt-action rifle, whether made for deer hunting or not.

 

[JoeMorgue]

My point is that before any action is taken on specific types of gun, research should be conducted to see to what effect that will have.

Tell you what. We ban them and see if murders go down. If they don't we can make them legal again.

 

[Nessie]

This article in the Guardian seems to agree with you.

Shootings aren’t a sign America is ‘broken’. It’s working exactly as intended

The writer is a former executive in the firearms industry.

From the article;

"The NSSF helped craft a new world of gun lobby extremism in which profits are all that matter. With the election of America’s first Black president, the lobby embraced conspiracy-mongering, racism and fear campaigns. Gun sales soared from less than 8m guns in 2008 to more than 16m in 2016."

There are people prepared to profit out of death and have seen profits rise as demand rises as Americans arm themselves more and more. The USA also has the world's largest armed force and arms industry and others make huge amounts of money out of providing medical care for Americans, or not if they cannot afford it.

I think it all stems from a form of individualism, where Americans are far more reliant on themselves, rather than the state, to look after them.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This is absurd. We don't need more study or data points.

No other civilized country has this number of gun deaths.
No other civilized country has this lenient of gun laws.

"I demand a civil debate where you prove the casual linkage between having a gun and shooting someone with a gun" can walk off the pier.

 

[lobosrul5]

From the article;

"The NSSF helped craft a new world of gun lobby extremism in which profits are all that matter. With the election of America’s first Black president, the lobby embraced conspiracy-mongering, racism and fear campaigns. Gun sales soared from less than 8m guns in 2008 to more than 16m in 2016."

There are people prepared to profit out of death and have seen profits rise as demand rises as Americans arm themselves more and more. The USA also has the world's largest armed force and arms industry and others make huge amounts of money out of providing medical care for Americans, or not if they cannot afford it.

I think it all stems from a form of individualism, where Americans are far more reliant on themselves, rather than the state, to look after them.

And the people that are all (mostly wannabe) super rugged individuals who are 100% self-reliant are also for the most part pro-police and fly "thin blue" flags or bumper stickers. We are truly a country of bizarre contradictions that even me who has lived his whole life here cannot really comprehend.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This is absurd. We don't need more study or data points.

No other civilized country has this number of gun deaths.
No other civilized country has this lenient of gun laws.

I demand proof america is a civilized country. I cite the gun laws and gun deaths as proof we are not.

 

[JoeMorgue]

We can maintain American rugged individualism without murdering school children.

Again this is more "Well it's evil but I can link to a broad, vaguely defined philosophical concept that I only invoke when I want to hurt other people and try to make the conversation about that instead."

"American individualism" is to "School Shootings" as "Freedom of Speech" is to "Nazis/Racists."

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The gun problem is a problem like many other in this country.

We know exactly what needs to be done, we know that every single Republican in federal office is going to lockstep oppose such measures, and we know nothing will change unless Democrats gets much, much more aggressive and radical in their approach to politics.

Ideally you'd see Democrats come out with some proposed sweeping gun control bill, with the names of existing Dem Senators willing to support it listed, then take it to the people and say "elect us x more Senators and this happens". "X more senators and we pack the courts to make sure it stays law". Much of the same could be said about abortion, or gay rights, or any other obviously just cause they have yet somehow are too flat-footed to actually defend.

Alas I am dreaming.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

All that tacti-cool gear the cops had sure didn't stop them from being a bunch of pussies.

 

[JoeMorgue]

All that tacti-cool gear the cops had sure didn't stop them from being a bunch of pussies.

Seriously if you're in full COD Cosplay you should be able to handle a single gunman.

What's the point of giving police tanks if they can't save school children.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

But you might get hurt!

 

[Warp12]

I knew it wouldn't be long before some were pointing fingers at the cops.

In a way it is a shame that an officer of any kind bothered to kill the shooter. Let's just let these things take their course next time and see how the result might be different.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

All that tacti-cool gear the cops had sure didn't stop them from being a bunch of pussies.

Giving them all this crap, plus endless adulation and boot licking, is probably a big part of why they are such pussies.

The endless deference and hero worship and turning a blind eye to their many, many failures is exactly why they might feel like they need only consider their own safety. The idea of having some duty to the community that supersedes their own whims and wants is totally alien to them.

These cops standing around in full battle-rattle doing nothing while a gunman mows down a classroom over a leisurely 40 minutes has probably done more to undermine the police than all the BLM protests combined. Truly impressive how these cops have managed to exceed the limits of the seemingly blank check given to them by our bootlicking society.

 

[lobosrul5]

I knew it wouldn't be long before some were pointing fingers at the cops.

In a way it is a shame that an officer bothered to kill the shooter. Let's just let these things take their course next time and see how the result might be different.

Yep, and if they did their ******* job and their ******* sworn duty we wouldn't be.

 

[Dr.Sid]

From the article;

"The NSSF helped craft a new world of gun lobby extremism in which profits are all that matter. With the election of America’s first Black president, the lobby embraced conspiracy-mongering, racism and fear campaigns. Gun sales soared from less than 8m guns in 2008 to more than 16m in 2016."

There are people prepared to profit out of death and have seen profits rise as demand rises as Americans arm themselves more and more. The USA also has the world's largest armed force and arms industry and others make huge amounts of money out of providing medical care for Americans, or not if they cannot afford it.

I think it all stems from a form of individualism, where Americans are far more reliant on themselves, rather than the state, to look after them.

That's actually interesting idea. What if gun lobby actively supports shootings and unrest ? But then, I always bet on stupidity vs. evil scheme.

 

[Thermal]

I knew it wouldn't be long before some were pointing fingers at the cops.

Well how hard is it really? They were the ones leaning against their car fenders while children were being murdered.

Cops: "That shoplifter might have a gun, so I should shoot first for my own safety"

Also cops: "That mother ****** took an AR-15 into an elementary school after firing on us, so I should hang back and wait & see for my own safety".

God I hate cowards.

 

[lobosrul5]

Well how hard is it really? They were the ones leaning against their car fenders while children were being murdered.

Cops: "That shoplifter might have a gun, so I should shoot first for my own safety"

Also cops: "That mother ****** took an AR-15 into an elementary school after firing on us, so I should hang back and wait & see for my own safety".

God I hate cowards.

I don't. I hate cowards who voluntarily take on a position where cowardice gets children killed.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's not blaming someone to ask why have them if they can't do their jobs.

I mean don't get me wrong I'm also blaming them, but I'm also asking why we have them.