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Texas Gov. Abbott wants to get rid of mandatory public education

Did Abbot ever put a number to these “extraordinary expenses” or is he doing all this DeSantos style i.e. no actual evidence but plenty of claims that are to be accepted by the faithful?
 
kookbreaker said:
“The official theory of evolution” shows your ignorance. While the basic structure of evolution as proposed by Darwin is in place evolution has undergone multiple, multiple changes to its aspects over the years.
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Shhh! That's heresy in this forum. According to others in this forum, there is only a single unchangeable "fact" of evolution which tolerates no modifications whatsoever.

kookbreaker said:
This would be like saying kids should jump off tall buildings and lick outlets because gravity and electrical theory are also theory and denying letting kids do this is “close-minded”.
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I don't understand this belief that it is clever to say something stupid. What do you think happens in a lab class? Does the teacher say "do what you **** well like"?
 
That there are costs associated with an influx of students -- whether documented or undocumented -- seems pretty obvious. Some of the extra costs associated with the undocumented kids include expanding bi-lingual instruction (and not just Spanish), remedial education for kids whose schooling has either been inadequate, interrupted or both and providing support for children who have been traumatized by events in their home country, events during their migration, anxieties associated with the social stigma they bear or all three.

I would like to see Democrats kind of 'co-opt' this issue by making it about getting Texas public schools the resources they need, including the federal assistance Abbott has talked about. Thereby getting the issue of banning children of undocumented parents from public schools 'off the table' so to speak.

Let's not forget, anti-immigration is an issue that has been a galvanizing event for populist right-wing political groups in Europe. I'm sure our 'conservative' friends here are well aware of this and see an opportunity to both create trouble and energize their supporters.
 

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Warp12 said:
First off, I am not saying that no children have a right to an education here. I think you know this.

I am saying that children of illegals should not have that right. I don't think they should be granted citizenship just because they were born here, either. As far as their burden to the US while growing up uneducated, there shouldn't be one. They should not be allowed to stay here.
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But they are, Blanche, they are in this country!

Whether you like it or not, there are hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of 'illegal' children in this country. And many, if not most of them, are going to grow up here and become adults here. Sure, we could deny them schooling and have a horde of illiterate and ignorant people trapped in the poverty cycle which is the main feeder of crime. But, hey, you just focus on keeping those babies getting past the cervix gate and don't worry about the ones actually here. So much for "Think of the children" and the Party of "Family Values".
 
"Texas spends a minimum of $6,160 per student, which lags behind the national average of $12,600 in 2018."


Well now....that sure explains a lot.
 
Warp12 said:
First off, I am not saying that no children have a right to an education here. I think you know this.

I am saying that children of illegals should not have that right. I don't think they should be granted citizenship just because they were born here, either. As far as their burden to the US while growing up uneducated, there shouldn't be one. They should not be allowed to stay here.
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Forget that pesky old Constitution! People born in the United States are "granted" citizenship by the manner in which the Constitution defines citizenship. One could amend the Constitution to redefine that right, but until that happens, the word "granted" implies a power to dispense rights that does not exist.
 
kookbreaker said:
Because that is not what you are saying.
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You can't doctor past posts. The GOP agenda is irrelevant. It was the idea of teaching "critical thinking" (not creationism) in the classroom that is being knocked and I was criticized for defending critical thinking. If you don't believe me then read some of the responses.
 
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psionl0 said:
Which of course is the exact opposite of the truth. You won't find a single post of mine that says that YEC or any other form of creationism should be taught in schools.
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Are you even fooling yourself? Nobody said you were saying YEC should be taught in schools. What we are saying is that you were taking the GQP's statement at face value, which, again, is quite apparent from your post #10.

Do you live off beating up strawmen? Is this the only way you think you can win the argument?

It has been, is and always will be about critical thinking (ask Darat).
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Nothing of what you have been claiming has anything to do with critical thinking beyond you bleating the term like a parrot.
 
The Don said:
The thing is that, if polls are to be believed, creationism is a view held by a sizeable minority of the US population - approaching 50%. Bearing that in mind, the demand to teach creationism and/or intelligent design instead of evolution is hardly surprising.

Add in a version of US history which skips over all of the uncomfortable bits, abstinence only sex education and a desire for teaching Christianity and it's fairy tales all the way down. :(
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The DUPpies writ large.
 
newyorkguy said:
I hope that this can be worked out. That a way can be found to provide some support for Texas schools which are, undoubtedly, being strained by the large influx of undocumented students. To do it in a way that supports both. Public school education for children regardless of their immigration status, and providing financial support for public schools in Texas. But in the current atmosphere of hyper-partisanship, along with the current vindictiveness of conservatives, you wonder how this will turn out.
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Are they? Is there actual evidence for this?
 
catsmate said:
Are they? Is there actual evidence for this?
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I'd be interested to see that, but I suspect it will be possible to find, though the evaluation of the strain could be subjective. As a resident of a small town which has had considerable strain on its budget, not by an influx of immigrants, but by other population changes, it's not hard to find even if it is also something that can be justified and lived with. For a small school district, an influx does not need to be enormous to be significant, and special education and services are more expensive than the regular stuff. The money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere will lead back to taxation somewhere for sure. The further out from the local school the expense comes, the less individual burden it will entail, and I suspect that Texas could afford it if it wanted to. And in addition, state tax revenue is not property based, and thus less likely to exclude the people who benefit from it.

But while I think the schools should continue to teach whoever is there, and the society will end up better for it, I can imagine that some communities with small school districts will have a legitimate beef.
 
Just a reminder: As I understand it, if any person presents themselves at a US border and requests residency or asylum for themselves and their family, they are not "illegals". That is the legal way to obtain US residency, either temporarily or permanently. Exactly the same process would apply to me, an old white Caucasian English-speaking male, as it does for them.
 
Warp12 said:
The whole "taxpayer" thing is a different debate. Lets just say that if Juan buys a Snickers bar and pays 5% in taxes from his under-the-table job, it is not the same as me paying 35% out of my paycheck, plus that 5%.

Remember, technically these kids should not even be here in the first place. Their illegal parents made that decision. It isn't about who's "sins" they are paying for. All of that falls on the parents, imo. And nobody should have to provide any resources for these people, educational or otherwise.
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Neither of those taxes pay much towards education in the state of Texas. Education in Texas is primarily funded by property taxes, which every renter helps their landlord pay by paying rent. So, it is nearly impossible to live in the state without paying for education. The lottery also pays a bit towards education, and is played more by the working poor than the wealthy.

If you want to stop illegal immigration it is simple: fine employers until it is no longer possible for illegals to find work. That has never been supported by republicans in Texas. It is seen as anti-business.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Just a reminder: As I understand it, if any person presents themselves at a US border and requests residency or asylum for themselves and their family, they are not "illegals". That is the legal way to obtain US residency, either temporarily or permanently. Exactly the same process would apply to me, an old white Caucasian English-speaking male, as it does for them.
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And it applies in exactly the same way at the Canadian border.

Of course we haven't heard any poutrage from the usual suspects about those people* and it is easy to literally see why that is?

*I expect we will now that I have mentioned it.
 
Dr. Keith said:
...Education in Texas is primarily funded by property taxes, which every renter helps their landlord pay by paying rent...
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This is how the school tax is levied in New York.
What factors influence your school tax bill?
There are four major factors that are used to calculate your property’s school tax bill:
a) Your school district’s tax levy.
b) Your property’s assessed value.
c) The equalization rate for your property’s taxing jurisdiction.
d) Your property’s STAR (New York State School Tax Relief Program) exemption value.

Who determines each of the four factors that influence your school tax bill?
a) The tax levy is set by the school district.
b) Your property’s assessed value is determined by your local property assessor
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Even in New York we have had people ranting about undocumented kids going to public schools and the expense. I saw a news video about an incident at a suburban school board meeting (I posted it here earlier). The meeting was held for the public in line with transparency requirements. I don't recall what it was about but it had nothing to do with the tax levy.

During the presentation by the school board president you could hear yelling from the audience. You couldn't make out what they were yelling and the board members seemed surprised but they didn't otherwise react. It was the MAGA faction. After the presentation the board said they would take questions from the audience. They warned that they had a limited amount of time and they would only entertain questions having to do with the evening's topic.

A man got up and began ranting about the school having gone virtual during the pandemic. The board president cut him off, saying he understood the man's concerns but that was not related to the evening's announcement. Then a woman got up. She was obviously very angry and she began yelling about "all these illegals" and why "do I have to pay for their schooling?" Some of the audience members were loudly cheering her on. She became so disorderly she was finally removed from the meeting by police.
 
smartcooky said:
And it applies in exactly the same way at the Canadian border.

Of course we haven't heard any poutrage from the usual suspects about those people* and it is easy to literally see why that is?

*I expect we will now that I have mentioned it.
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"Fauxrage" - The moment a conservative pretends to be outraged about something so he can continue to be outraged about the thing he is really outraged about specifically because someone (rightfully) brought up "If this was true shouldn't you also be outraged about this other thing?"
 
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