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Merged Remember the West Memphis 3?

Ampulla of Vater said:
I didn't realize you were on the fence with this one. Velly intellestink.

Happy Birthday!
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I should explain two things. One, I don't know this case especially well. Two, based on the reading that I have done, I doubt that the three are guilty. The evidence against Baldwin in particular is close to non-existent, but as I noted above Misskelley's confession should not have affected the legal case against Baldwin or Echols. What I am on the fence about is whether Echols literary and photographic talents tell us anything about the likelihood that he would participate in a murder such as this one.
 
This is interesting.

https://www.crimeonline.com/2022/05...lyze-never-before-seen-terry-hobbs-interview/

In March 2022, Damien Echols said in a tweet that he’ll be back in court on June 23 with his law team as they try to get access to DNA, found in the case evidence, to a lab for testing.

“After 18 months Echols’ was informed that the evidence was likely not available, but after a state court order, Echols’ team was invited to the West Memphis Police Department to review what evidence remained. What they discovered was a very organized, catalogued and intact body of evidence,” a group working on the case previously wrote.

The group also stated that Echols submitted a FOIA request over 18 months ago, but the request went unanswered, which is a “violation of Arkansas state law.” Echols ultimately ended filing a lawsuit against the police department.

Echols’ lawyer, Patrick Benca, reviewed evidence earlier this year that was thought to have been lost. The West Memphis Police Department and other officials are being accused of stonewalling the release of the evidence for over a year and informing Echols’ team that the evidence was lost or destroyed.

According to Fox 13 Memphis, Benca previously said the evidence was intact and they plan to “move ahead and test this evidence using the latest DNA technology available to hopefully identify the real killer(s) of the three children in 1993 and exonerate Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin, and Jesse Misskelley.”
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There's also information about Terry Hobbs' behaviour on the evening of the murders which is being interpreted as suspicious.
 
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Shoestring DNA; M-Vac DNA collection device

From the previous link: "'The only person whose DNA would be in that ligature is the person who tied the knots,' Echols said." I am a little less certain then Mr. Echols is, but I am intrigued by the new technology that they will be using. Hypothetically if Mr. Hobbs' DNA were found on shoestrings used to tie up Steven Branch, I might ponder the possibility of secondary DNA transfer. If Mr. Hobbs' DNA were found on shoestrings used to tie up Christopher Byers, it would be more probative. My understanding is that Mr. Hobbs' DNA was already found on a shoelace, but I could be wrong about that.

From a December news story: "The next step is getting the evidence tested using a new DNA technology called M-VAC."

WaPo had a story about M-Vac technology. "The FBI is testing the M-Vac, and in a first round of results published this month, the agency found it to be far more effective in extracting DNA from rough services such as pressure-treated wood and plywood and 47 times more effective on automotive carpet than the standard method of running a swab or “Q-Tip” over the surface...The M-Vac is building a catalogue of success stories. In Salt Lake City in 1977, 16-year-old Sharon Schollmeyer was found raped and stabbed to death inside her apartment. Nearly four decades later, Salt Lake police used the M-Vac to pull DNA off a piece of clothing that had been stuffed into the victim’s mouth, and used the national DNA databank to connect it to a convicted sex offender living in Florida."
 
more on the legal battle around testing

One of Mr. Echols' attorneys wrote, "Fortunately, this case does not require the Court to calibrate too precisely what degree of evidentiary alteration might be effected by the M-Vac technology on the evidentiary items proposed for testing," according to Echols' attorneys. "That is because this case contains six separate ligatures, not just one, for potential testing. Two ligatures were used on each of the child victims: one to tie each victim's right ankle and right wrist together behind their backs and one to tie each victim's left ankle and left wrist together in the same way. Three victims with two ligatures each provides a total of six pieces of this type of evidence for analysis. Because the facts of this case present no reason to suggest that the killer(s) handled the ligatures associated with one victim any differently than the others, each of the ligatures should present equal potential evidentiary value for M-Vac processing. Accordingly, this Court can order M-Vac testing of any subset it chooses of this ligatures evidence and still fully ensure the preservation of such ligature evidence for the future as well."

I am more optimistic that something will turn up, now that I know more about the ligatures and the M-vac technique.
 
Rolfe said:
My main concern in this case is slightly different, and it's the ten years suspended sentences. These men were imprisoned in their teens, and they weren't the most intellectual or best-adjusted teenagers even then. Damien was said to have had mental health issues. They have been in the US prison system for 18 years, instead of learning how to get on in society as adult members of it.

Are they actually going to be able to keep their noses clean, under the threat of these suspended sentences? I hope so, but it's a big ask.
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I was reviewing the thread, for old time's sake, and I saw this post. It is now more than ten years on, and none of the three has been re-imprisoned under the terms of the suspended sentences. At least they're clear of that now.

Damian Echols has written a book that demonstrates a high level of literary skill. I think it's a minor miracle.
 
The real killer or killers are out there somewhere, and perhaps they've killed again. This is not unusual. Police are often willing to let real murderers and rapists go free in order to justify their own badly flawed investigations.
 
It's the same with all these cases (with the obvious exception of the murder of Meredith Kercher). Jodi Jones, Megan and Lin Russell, even the Lockerbie bombing. Official intransigence in recognising that they convicted an innocent man leaves the real perpetrators free.

And yet the families of the victims just cry and scream that it's an outrage anyone is even allowed to claim that they've been wrongly convicted. They simple can't entertain the possibility that the person in jail isn't the person who committed the murder.
 
Rolfe said:
It's the same with all these cases (with the obvious exception of the murder of Meredith Kercher). Jodi Jones, Megan and Lin Russell, even the Lockerbie bombing. Official intransigence in recognising that they convicted an innocent man leaves the real perpetrators free.

And yet the families of the victims just cry and scream that it's an outrage anyone is even allowed to claim that they've been wrongly convicted. They simple can't entertain the possibility that the person in jail isn't the person who committed the murder.
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Give those families sole authority over the levers of power, and they'd convict more innocents than the government they're protesting.

And that's even before accounting for the corruption that would instantly attach to such authority.
 
Rolfe said:
It's the same with all these cases (with the obvious exception of the murder of Meredith Kercher). Jodi Jones, Megan and Lin Russell, even the Lockerbie bombing. Official intransigence in recognising that they convicted an innocent man leaves the real perpetrators free.

And yet the families of the victims just cry and scream that it's an outrage anyone is even allowed to claim that they've been wrongly convicted. They simple can't entertain the possibility that the person in jail isn't the person who committed the murder.
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In this case I believe it is only Hobbs (he was a stepparent BTW) that still believes that the WM3 are guilty. Of course that serves his own interests, but as I recall the rest of the surviving family are now convinced that the WM3 are innocent.
 
Lerxst said:
In this case I believe it is only Hobbs (he was a stepparent BTW) that still believes that the WM3 are guilty. Of course that serves his own interests, but as I recall the rest of the surviving family are now convinced that the WM3 are innocent.
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I didn't know that. That's interesting.
 
theprestige said:
Give those families sole authority over the levers of power, and they'd convict more innocents than the government they're protesting.

And that's even before accounting for the corruption that would instantly attach to such authority.
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It's complicated. I've seen it first-hand. My next-door-neighbour lost her grandmother at Lockerbie (something I did not know until after I'd spent several years investigating the case and written a book about it). We only spoke about it once, when she burst into tears and said, "I don't think they should have let him go."

I couldn't even bring myself to say, "But Alys, what if he didn't do it? I've seen really good evidence that says he didn't." It wasn't appropriate. It's too painful for her. She doesn't want to look at the evidence, she literally can't. And it was more than 30 years ago, and of course she knows that her grandmother, who was 81 when she was killed by a plane falling on her, would have been dead long ago in the natural course of things. "But it's the way it happened!"

It's not that she is convinced by the evidence, even less that she has examined the evidence I have and rejected it. The intellectual exercise of examining the evidence is beyond her, emotionally. I can well imagine that's a common reaction. Alys is a very intelligent woman, but she can't do it.

So we don't talk about it. At all. We were out riding together last week and she asked me about the book I'm currently writing, which has nothing to do with Lockerbie at all. I almost opened my mouth to say something about the publishing process that included "when I published my last book" but I caught myself in time.

So I have a lot of sympathy. But when the families go to the press and howl for vengeance and vilify anyone who questions the verdict, the sympathy starts to wear a bit thin.
 
John Mark Byers, the stepfather of one of the victims

Rolfe said:
I didn't know that. That's interesting.
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When John Douglas spoke with John Mark Byers, Mr. Douglas had to make it clear from the start that he did not consider Mr. Byers to be a suspect (this is from my memory of reading one of Mr. Douglas' books). Mr. Byers had come off poorly in one of the documentaries on the case, and some might have suspected him before that point. Mr. Byers initially thought that the WM3 were guilty but changed his mind circa 2007 (ABC News). Sadly he died in an automobile accident in 2020.
 
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John Mark Byers and Melissa Byers are both deceased. As Chris pointed out John Byers at one time believed in their guilt but changed his mind well before his passing in 2020.

Byers' biological father also has had his doubts:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070703223027/http://www.wm3.org/live/thevictims/letter.php


I don't believe that anyone should be convicted of murder that they didn't do whether it's my son or not my son. I've talked to people who believe these boys are guilty, and they just don't have any evidence to support what they're saying. It seems to me that if they really cared about the truth they would listen to reason and see that there just wasn't enough to put these three in prison.

I want to know who murdered my son, and I want to know that they will be caught and punished for what they did. I don't want three innocent people to suffer for something they didn't do.
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Pam Hobbs said this in 2012

"When I met Damien it was overwhelming. He apologized to me for being...his actions as a teenager back then. I told him don't worry about it. I was a rebellious teenager my self once upon a time…When Damien hugged me and told me he was sorry for my loss. He wasn't going to give up until justice is served that wasn't put on. It was real. I felt it in my heart…I'm content in my heart that Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley did not murder my child."
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The family of James Michael Moore has not commented much since then. There may be statements from them that are in the public record but I can't seem to find them. Many of the sites dedicated to the case are already offline or will be soon.
 
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This is interesting. Remember how, earlier in the thread, we looked at the concept of an Alford plea and discovered that as used in this case it seemed to be unique? The standard use of such a plea, and the purpose it was devised for as far as I can see, is to allow someone to enter a guilty plea while maintaining innocence so as to remove the death penalty from the table. An actual not-guilty plea would open the accused to the possibility of the death penalty if convicted, so this is a way of maintaining one's innocence on paper while accepting a hefty prison sentence in lieu of the death penalty.

The use of the plea in the West Memphis case, to allow convicted men to be freed immediately rather than proceed with a retrial that was expected to free them was held to be unique. Well, the idea now seems to be catching on.

Did James Parsons kill his wife?

In 2012, a far more experienced coroner in Franklin County took a second look at the forensic findings, along with the health-care records that described Delilah’s previous suicide attempts. The coroner changed the manner of death from “homicide” to “undetermined.” With that, the state’s case was significantly undermined. Prosecutors fought for another five years, but in 2017, at age 56, Howard was released. While awaiting a hearing to be granted a new trial, he accepted what is known as an Alford plea: He was given his freedom in return for a guilty plea that included an assertion of his innocence.
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I wonder if this is the start of a trend? About to lose a retrial? Offer the accused an Alford plea, save face by asserting that this is equivalent to a confession and proves guilt, and avoid the risk of having to pay compensation.
 
Hoo done it

Novelist Michael Peterson (Durham, NC, USA) was accused and convicted of killing his wife. It was a very high profile case, in part because of The Staircase documentary. It was also resolved with an Alford plea. "'Accepting this Alford plea has been the hardest thing I've ever done,' said Peterson at a news conference after the court hearing."

The concept of an Alford plea is a bit unsettling, but maybe we are better off with it than without it. Getting Damien Echols off of death row quickly was said to be on the mind of Jason Baldwin IIRC. I will stay on the fence for a while on the question of whether it is a good or bad idea.
 
Thanks, it's a long entry, but I'm getting the impression this might be the normal use of the Alford plea, to allow someone to get the death penalty off the table while still continuing to assert their innocence.

I note it's also post-2011.
 
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