Trans women are not women (Part 8)

[TurkeysGhost]

Anti-trans keyboard warrior does an oopsie:

Man Charged With Threatening Merriam-Webster Over Gender Definitions
The man, Jeremy David Hanson, 34, threatened in October to shoot and bomb the company’s offices because of its definitions of “girl,” “boy,” “trans woman” and other words, federal authorities said.

...

“There is no such thing as ‘gender identity,’” he wrote in a comment about the definition of “female.” “The imbecile who wrote this entry should be hunted down and shot.”

One of Merriam-Webster’s definitions of female is “having a gender identity that is the opposite of male.”

Mr. Hanson escalated his threats from there, sending messages saying that the company’s headquarters should be “shot up and bombed,” the statement said. He wrote that, by changing certain gender-based definitions, the company was taking part in efforts to “degrade the English language and deny reality.”

Edited by xjx388: 

<snip>
Rule 12

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/merriam-webster-threats-lgbtq.html

 

[Armitage72]

Anti-trans keyboard warrior does an oopsie:

Edited by xjx388: 

Removed moderated content

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/us/merriam-webster-threats-lgbtq.html

The NBC article says "@anonYmous" was the name used to make the threats. Imaginative.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Regardless of what we forumites think about it, I think what is actually happening is that people are looking at the science behind puberty blockers, and saying that we need to put the brakes on it. When Norway and Alabama are on the same page, there's something going on that needs some attention.

No kidding. The mere concept of Norway and Alabama being in agreement on something like that should give everyone pause.

 

[Meadmaker]

It would probably be less tedious to point out when transphobes aren't fellow travelers with other right wing cranks and bigots, given how rarely that occurs.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.


In your writings, I don't see any hint that you actually have any concern, compassion, or feelings for trans people. In real life, I have no idea how you act, but here, it's always about the politics. In your writings, it doesn't seem like you are talking about people, just pawns in the culture wars.

Don't get me wrong. I'm pretty much the same way on trans issues. Once in a while, I'll talk about trans people and actually address their problems and concerns, but more often, my attitude, in these threads is more like "I get that they have issues, but that's their problem, not mine, or my wife's. She doesn't want you around when she's taking off her clothes, so figure out some other way to get this done."

So it just seems like your real focus isn't on the trans people themselves, but on their enemies.


You aren't alone. I think there are lots of people like that. I sometimes even wonder about people like the author in the book review posted recently. His/her writings, at least in the excerpts quoted by the reviewer are so ridiculous, so absurd, so utterly lacking in anything remotely like logic, and on top of that so offensively stated, that I have to wonder what they were thinking. Were they really defending trans people, including "herself", or was it just a means of typing a screed against burgeois values?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.


In your writings, I don't see any hint that you actually have any concern, compassion, or feelings for trans people. In real life, I have no idea how you act, but here, it's always about the politics. In your writings, it doesn't seem like you are talking about people, just pawns in the culture wars.

Whether or not a culture war touches on material issues very much depends on where you stand. For straight, cis people, these culture wars are things that happen to someone else. For trans or other queer people, these culture wars are direct material or physical threats to their lives.

So it just seems like your real focus isn't on the trans people themselves, but on their enemies.

To my eye, their enemies are their key problem. The reactionary right has made it clear they are no longer happy simply trying to impede the advancement of trans rights (which they have for years), but are launching a full-on assault to roll back the few gains that have been made over the years. What else should someone like me be focused on? This problem eclipses all other issues.

You aren't alone. I think there are lots of people like that. I sometimes even wonder about people like the author in the book review posted recently. His/her writings, at least in the excerpts quoted by the reviewer are so ridiculous, so absurd, so utterly lacking in anything remotely like logic, and on top of that so offensively stated, that I have to wonder what they were thinking. Were they really defending trans people, including "herself", or was it just a means of typing a screed against burgeois values?

No comment on this. I waste a lot of time here, but I'm not going to bother reading an anti-trans screed from some right wing rag I've never even heard of before.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I suppose some of the posters on this thread will not appreciate this book review.

How the trans ideology dehumanises women - Grace Lavery’s bonkers book shows just how sexist trans thinking has become.

This review has some gems:

Parts of the book are unwittingly hilarious. Lavery writes about the ‘panic’ over trans women (ie, blokes) using women’s toilets, with gender-critical types pushing the bigoted idea that trans women are ‘erotically fixated on the idea of women urinating’. Then, literally in the next paragraph, he says: ‘[But] going to the bathroom is kind of sexy? At least, I have occasionally found it to be so.’ My man, this is why they don’t want you in their loos.

He describes spiked as ‘TERF’ and as part of a new ‘class of activists who deride “identity politics”’ and who instead promote ‘a love of common sense [and] plain speaking’. Guilty as charged!

 

[Ziggurat]

No kidding. The mere concept of Norway and Alabama being in agreement on something like that should give everyone pause.

Nonsense. This just means that Norway is secretly full of inbred right wing religious nutjobs. SuburbanTurkey told me so.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I mean, the reviewer could be lying about the book. Maybe it's really a wholesome and uplifting work, that challenges some conservative assumptions about sex and gender, humanizes transfolk, and gives a way forward as a society, through the tangled questions of gender dysphoria, autogynaephilia, and transsexual rights in public policy. Maybe it lays out the settled science, and illuminates the truth of a transwoman's valid lived condition.

Maybe the reviewer didn't even read the book. Maybe he just saw "penis" in the title, and constructed a fantasy out of whole cloth. Maybe the review says more about the reviewer being a cock thirsty self hating homosexual, than it says about the author of the book.

Lol, Gray Slavery had a bit of a breakdown on Twitter when their book came out and was met with poor reviews. Apparently other people saying that their book was crap from start to finish caused them to have some PTSD.

 

[Ziggurat]

No comment on this. I waste a lot of time here, but I'm not going to bother reading an anti-trans screed from some right wing rag I've never even heard of before.

Nobody is ever obliged to read someone else's source, just like nobody is obliged to participate in this or any other thread.

But your pride in being uninterested in what other people think, even if you think they are wrong, is quite peculiar.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Nonsense. This just means that Norway is secretly full of inbred right wing religious nutjobs. SuburbanTurkey told me so.

Did someone post a link that I missed, or is this all based on some second hand account of someone seeing a tweet somewhere?

Go ahead and explain to me what Norway's new policy is. Surely you must know it well to be gloating so confidently.

 

[Emily's Cat]

For straight, cis people, these culture wars are things that happen to someone else. For trans or other queer people, these culture wars are direct material or physical threats to their lives.

Are we to gather that female humans don't count at all in your equation?

This *IS* happening to female humans, and it *DOES* present material and physical threats to our lives, dignity, and rights.

 

[Ziggurat]

Did someone post a link that I missed, or is this all based on some second hand account of someone seeing a tweet somewhere?

Go ahead and explain to me what Norway's new policy is. Surely you must know it well to be gloating so confidently.

I was going off of what Rolfe described. Maybe Rolfe got it wrong. Maybe it was Sweden, not Norway.

Access to hormonal interventions for youth <18 will be tightly restricted. The goal is to administer these interventions in research settings only, and to restrict eligibility criteria to mirror those in the “Dutch protocol.”

* The key prerequisite for hormonal treatment of youth is the prepubertal onset of gender dysphoria that is long-lasting (5 year minimum is mentioned), persists into adolescence and causes clear suffering.
* Some exceptions apply. Puberty blockade can be offered in extreme circumstances to those with post-pubertal onset of gender dysphoria, especially for biologically male patients. However, it does not appear that cross-sex hormones can be offered to the <18 youth with no childhood history of gender dysphoria.​

So in general, minors will not be allowed puberty blockers or cross-sex hormone treatment.

God damn right wing fascist Swedes.

 

[Ziggurat]

Are we to gather that female humans don't count at all in your equation?

I think that's well established by now.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I was going off of what Rolfe described. Maybe Rolfe got it wrong. Maybe it was Sweden, not Norway.



So in general, minors will not be allowed puberty blockers or cross-sex hormone treatment.

God damn right wing fascist Swedes.

Right, so you have no idea. I assumed as much, but figured it would be polite to ask. Don't let that get in the way of gloating about something you don't even understand.

 

[Ziggurat]

Right, so you have no idea. I assumed as much, but figured it would be polite to ask.

I have a pretty good idea of Sweden's policy, which I just gave you a bunch of information on. And according to your prior statements, I should expect, based on this policy, that Sweden is very right-wing.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I have a pretty good idea of Sweden's policy, which I just gave you a bunch of information on. And according to your prior statements, I should expect, based on this policy, that Sweden is very right-wing.

Sweden is so last week. Tell me about Norway. Something did happen there regarding trans healthcare policy, you weren't wrong. Tell me about it. Don't be shy, you seemed so certain just before.

 

[Rolfe]

Are we to gather that female humans don't count at all in your equation?

This *IS* happening to female humans, and it *DOES* present material and physical threats to our lives, dignity, and rights.

I'd suggest reminding ST how very very few trans people are victims of violence each year, compared to the enormous number of women. Even on a per capita basis, trans people are the safest on the planet, with the possible exception of the ones who are sex workers in Brazil.

ST seems to have invented a class of people he thinks are uniquely fragile, vunerable and threatened, and appointed himself saviour. Pity the group doesn't exist, really.

 

[Meadmaker]

I did a bit of googling about Norway. I saw a couple of articles that listed Norway, along with Sweden and France, as countries that have reversed course on gender affirming care, but the articles literally had one sentence, and no details.

When Sweden came out with their policy, I saw lots more, and even saw more about France's medical assocation statement than about Norway, so I don't know how much of a course reversal Norway actually made. Insufficient detail.

 

[Rolfe]

There were several tweets about it a few days ago with links to a statement but it all seems to have gone quiet and I can't find the statement now, so perhaps there were some crossed lines.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Surely as time goes on countries will review, refresh, revisit, and refine both their vague cultural "view" and official "policies" as to transgenderism.

Regardless of your views on the subject eventually these ideas are going to actually have to be put into motion in the real world and we'll have to see what happens and doing that will require trial and error.

That's not (necessarily) a "reversal" when it happens.