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Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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Well, we in this thread have been looking at the science behind puberty blockers for some time, only to be asked in supercilious tones whether we know better than the real experts, and assured that medical professionals and governments have declared them to be safe.
 
Rolfe said:
Well, we in this thread have been looking at the science behind puberty blockers for some time, only to be asked in supercilious tones whether we know better than the real experts, and assured that medical professionals and governments have declared them to be safe.
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Yeah. Arguments from authority, or arguments ad popularem, which is basically what an election result is all about, have a way of coming around to bite people. You have to be sure of the authority.


(Note to onlookers: By saying Norway and Alabama are banning or restricting puberty blockers, I am not intending to cite those governments as authorities. Rolfe has provided a whole bunch of evidence about how bad puberty blockers are. I think others in the thread have as well. I would cite that data as the substance behind my argument that puberty blockers are, to be generous, overprescribed. I'm just noting that governments as diverse as Scandinavia and the American South have been moved to act by the same data.)
 
To be fair, though. I don't really know if LJ actually had any comment on puberty blockers. I don't remember.

You could be 100% pro trans in every meaningful way, and still oppose puberty blockers.
 
Meadmaker said:
To be fair, though. I don't really know if LJ actually had any comment on puberty blockers. I don't remember.

You could be 100% pro trans in every meaningful way, and still oppose puberty blockers.
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I guess my definition of pro-trans, from a medical perspective, would be support for making accurate diagnoses in as timely a manner as possible, following up with the most effective treatment, and monitoring and adjusting that treatment over time based on effectiveness.

That may or may not involve puberty blockers in a given case. I don't support prescribing them lightly (on demand), but I also don't agree with outright bans. I don't consider either position to be founded on sound science or medicine.
 
Interesting headline from NBC News yesterday.

"Person sets themself on fire in front of Supreme Court building"

I had never seen "themself" used in a formal setting before.

Several news outlets also used "person" and "themself" in the headlines. Some used "person" and "themselves", and some used "Man" and "himself".


No indication that this was transgender related, but I did think it odd that I have never seen that sort of wording in a news source before.
 
Is it possible that the sex of the person was simply unknown? It's longstanding usage in English to employ "they" in that situation, not the depersonalising "it" (as you would do with an animal whose sex you didn't know).
 
Rolfe said:
Is it possible that the sex of the person was simply unknown? It's longstanding usage in English to employ "they" in that situation, not the depersonalising "it" (as you would do with an animal whose sex you didn't know).
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Some of the headlines said "man" and "himself". This included Fox News and any other right leaning sources.


ETA: It's also possible that the gender-neutral headlines were written before the sex was known, and the "man" headlines after. I saw today that the NBC news headline used "man" and "himself", where yesterday's had written "person" and "themself".

ETA2: And I just noticed today's CNN headline is "Person sets self on fire", whereas yesterday's was "Person sets themself on fire".
 
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I suspect they'd simply have said "man" when first writing the copy if that had been known at the time, but then the whole genderwoo conditioning that journalists get brainwashed with cut in when the story was being clarified later.
 
What struck me more than anything else was the use of the word "themself", as opposed to "themselves".

"Themself" wasn't a word when I was growing up. The unknown gender reflexive pronoun would either have been "himself" or "themselves". (My English teacher would have insisted on "himself" as proper grammar, but "themselves" was more common in daily use by that time.) I think of "themself" as being a word created to describe someone who wishes to be considered without gender, as opposed to someone whose gender is unknown.
 
Rolfe said:
I just read on Twitter that Norway, one of the wokest countries on the planet, has just now put strict curbs on the provision of puberty blockers to children in their early teens. More and more authorities are starting to realise the serious harm being done to children by these things.
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Excellent news - let's hope it catches on.
 
Rolfe said:
I suppose some of the posters on this thread will not appreciate this book review.

How the trans ideology dehumanises women - Grace Lavery’s bonkers book shows just how sexist trans thinking has become.
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Interesting review, but Spiked is a source I use with a warning. If you look back through the reviewers post history on Spiked you find a lot of rant's about mask mandates and other anti-public health topics.


That said, like any broken clock the people on that site can get it right from time to time.



This article seems to be a case in point.


For the past decade, problems have been mounting at the NHS’s Gender Identity Development Services (GIDS), the UK’s specialist provider of care for children with gender-identity issues. There have been whistleblowers, court cases and heart-rending testimony from former patients who say they have been forever scarred by their time at the clinic. Nevertheless, few politicians, let alone ministers, have been willing to speak out. No doubt many fear being smeared as a transphobe – a stain no ambitious politician wants.
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https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/04/25/we-have-been-experimenting-on-children/
 
Graham2001 said:
Interesting review, but Spiked is a source I use with a warning. If you look back through the reviewers post history on Spiked you find a lot of rant's about mask mandates and other anti-public health topics.

That said, like any broken clock the people on that site can get it right from time to time.

This article seems to be a case in point.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/04/25/we-have-been-experimenting-on-children/
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That seems to me to be the very definition of argumentum ad hominen. If the article itself is flawed, then by all means highlight the flaws. The platform it is published on is of secondary relevance.

(In other words, I'm tired of trans advocates declaring, "ew, I won't read that, it's published by..." [insert practically anything that isn't Pink News], and then excoriating me as some sort of Nazi for even clicking on a link to whatever publication we're talking about.)
 
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I mean, the reviewer could be lying about the book. Maybe it's really a wholesome and uplifting work, that challenges some conservative assumptions about sex and gender, humanizes transfolk, and gives a way forward as a society, through the tangled questions of gender dysphoria, autogynaephilia, and transsexual rights in public policy. Maybe it lays out the settled science, and illuminates the truth of a transwoman's valid lived condition.

Maybe the reviewer didn't even read the book. Maybe he just saw "penis" in the title, and constructed a fantasy out of whole cloth. Maybe the review says more about the reviewer being a cock thirsty self hating homosexual, than it says about the author of the book.
 
Graham2001 said:
Interesting review, but Spiked is a source I use with a warning. If you look back through the reviewers post history on Spiked you find a lot of rant's about mask mandates and other anti-public health topics.


That said, like any broken clock the people on that site can get it right from time to time.



This article seems to be a case in point.





https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/04/25/we-have-been-experimenting-on-children/
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It would probably be less tedious to point out when transphobes aren't fellow travelers with other right wing cranks and bigots, given how rarely that occurs.
 
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