Cont: Texas bans abortion. Part 2

shuttlt said:
Not understand what? Warp12 seemed to be saying that you shouldn't choose extreme positions, but rather the truth lies somewhere towards the middle. Very often, you have to choose a side in the argument in order to be able to define the middle. Hence Warp12's description is insufficient.
Click to expand...

He is right, but you have to understand what the extremes are to understand where the middle is:

Forced birth - - - mothers free choice - - - forced abortion

If you exclude one extreme it makes the middle look extreme.
 
Dr. Keith said:
He is right, but you have to understand what the extremes are to understand where the middle is:

Forced birth - - - mothers free choice - - - forced abortion

If you exclude one extreme it makes the middle look extreme.
Click to expand...
Of course forced abortion does not exist anywhere, but forced sterilization and eugenics have come a good bit closer, and if you were to insert that into the diagram, free choice might move closer to "pro life" by one space.
 
Dr. Keith said:
He is right, but you have to understand what the extremes are to understand where the middle is:

Forced birth - - - mothers free choice - - - forced abortion

If you exclude one extreme it makes the middle look extreme.
Click to expand...
Right, and if you reframe the question a new extreme position can appear or disappear and moderate positions can be made extreme and extreme positions can be made moderate. It's sophistry.
 
Starr County woman arrested for “self-induced abortion”

STARR COUNTY, Texas (ValleyCentral) — A woman has been charged with murder after authorities say she performed a “self-induced abortion.”

Lizelle Herrera, 26, was arrested on Thursday by the Starr County Sheriff’s Office and charged with murder.

According to a sheriff’s office spokesperson, Herrera was arrested after it was learned she “intentionally and knowingly cause the death of an individual by self-induced abortion.”

Herrera remains in the custody of the Starr County Sheriff’s Office at this time on a $500 thousand bond.
Click to expand...
 
Bob001 said:
And abortion has been legal for 50 years. There is no basis for the arrest, let alone a prosecution. This is more Texas insanity.
Click to expand...

As an argument, that abortion had been legal for 50 years is no better, in and of itself, than that slavery had been legal for pretty much all of human history. Going a bit further, there's also something to be said about the fact that many women have been legally harassed or outright prosecuted for getting abortions even when doing so is legal. The charges may have been contorted and BS legally, but it still happened.
 
According to here.

Texas Law Guide to Murder
In Texas, murder falls under the umbrella of criminal homicide. Also included in this group are manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. According to Texas law, a person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

Texas Murder
Section 19.02 of the Texas Penal Code defines the crime of murder. Under the law, a person commits this offense if he “intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual, intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual; or commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.”

Texas Capital Murder
Section 19.03 of the Texas Penal Code defines the crime of capital murder. Under the law, capital murder includes committing one of the offenses defined under the murder statute and does one or more of the following:

The person murders a peace officer or fireman who is acting in an official duty;
The person intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;
The person commits or solicits a murder for hire;
The person commits the murder while escaping or attempting to escape from a penal institution;
The person, while incarcerated murders another person;
The person murders more than one person;
The person murders a person aged ten years old or younger; or
The person murders another person involved in service with the judiciary.
 
Bob001 said:
And abortion has been legal for 50 years. There is no basis for the arrest, let alone a prosecution. This is more Texas insanity.
Click to expand...

A self-induced abortion (also called a self-managed abortion, or sometimes a self-induced miscarriage) is an abortion performed by the pregnant woman herself, or with the help of other, non-medical assistance. Although the term includes abortions induced outside of a clinical setting with legal, sometimes over-the-counter medication, it also refers to efforts to terminate a pregnancy through alternative, potentially more dangerous methods.[1] Such practices may present a threat to the health of women.[2]
Click to expand...


We don't know exactly the circumstances of what she did, here...do we? So I don't know how you can say there was no basis for arrest.
 
Last edited:
Stacyhs said:
Here's a bit more info on the TX case mentioned above. It hasn't been released yet whether Herrera caused an abortion for herself or helped someone else. Nor has the info on how many weeks gestation the pregnancy was.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/09/texas-woman-26-charged-murder-self-induced-abortion
Click to expand...


There's more here.
Texas woman was arrested this week for allegedly performing an “illegal” abortion on herself, authorities said.
....
“What we know is that…she was in the hospital and had a miscarriage and divulged some information to hospital staff, who then reported her to the police,” Rockie Gonzalez, the founder and director of the Frontera Fund told Medium.
Click to expand...
https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion/

According to a sheriff’s office spokesperson, Herrera was arrested after it was learned she “intentionally and knowingly cause the death of an individual by self-induced abortion.”
Click to expand...
https://wgntv.com/news/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion/

Sure sounds like she was arrested for taking a drug to cause an abortion, which may well not have been the standard prescription medications. I dunno how that gets to be murder. This is a grandstanding rural sheriff who has decided to define a fetus as "an individual."
 
This just proves that Texas absolutely needs cheap and easy access to abortions.

Are there any options for people like this woman? I mean does she seriously have to go through trial or can other states, the feds, anyone at all, step in?

And $500,000 bond? Sounds like human rights abuse, North Korean style.
 
Bob001 said:
There's more here.

https://nypost.com/2022/04/09/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion/


https://wgntv.com/news/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion/

Sure sounds like she was arrested for taking a drug to cause an abortion, which may well not have been the standard prescription medications. I dunno how that gets to be murder. This is a grandstanding rural sheriff who has decided to define a fetus as "an individual."
Click to expand...

So which one of the hospital staff who reported her gets her $10,000 now? Do they each get $10K or do the darlings have to share the $10K?

Texas is a freaking time machine back to the 1950's. They can keep it. You couldn't pay me to live there.
 
When commentators without legal standing argue that they think there's racial bias, certain commentators here cry "guilty unless proven innocent," but get ready, because I think we're going to see a new wave of it in real life.

She'll be charged with an illegal abortion or murder or whatever, and because the core event (the still birth) is not in question, do you think the prosecution will have to prove she intended it, or will she have to satisfy a jury that she did not?
 
bruto said:
When commentators without legal standing argue that they think there's racial bias, certain commentators here cry "guilty unless proven innocent," but get ready, because I think we're going to see a new wave of it in real life.

She'll be charged with an illegal abortion or murder or whatever, and because the core event (the still birth) is not in question, do you think the prosecution will have to prove she intended it, or will she have to satisfy a jury that she did not?
Click to expand...

It's Texas. Anything is possible...the nuttier, the more probable it will.
 
It's horrible, but I think we're going to see some women go to prison before people understand this tide of rights abuses is coming for everyone. Hopefully, it won't be too late.

Texas can go **** itself.
 
TheGoldcountry said:
It's horrible, but I think we're going to see some women go to prison before people understand this tide of rights abuses is coming for everyone. Hopefully, it won't be too late.

Texas can go **** itself.
Click to expand...

Texas Republicans working hard to make Texas into a place with authoritarian rule, specifically. There's a heck of a lot of Texas Democrats, after all, however much gerrymandering and voter suppression reduces their practical influence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom