Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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JoeMorgue said:
//Slight hijack//

Would any "Men must wear this, women must wear this" law pass muster if anyone really fought it?

Again I'm sure they are still floating around, but I wonder if any of them are really on solid ground?
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Well, in many locations, women have to cover their nipples in public and men don't. There are efforts to change this, but their success has been limited so far. I don't think most women consider this extra requirement much of a burden. And while its a sex difference in clothing requirements, it doesn't actually match Emily's Cat specifications as described.

But I do wonder: how does the law cover males with breast implants? When are they required to cover their nipples, and when are they not? Does it depend on whether they consider themselves women?
 
p0lka said:
The judgement summary is here
https://judiciary.scot/home/sentenc...omen-scotland-v-the-la-the-scottish-ministers

if you click the link at the bottom it will take you to what it was summarised from.
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Yes, it shows that the Scottish government cannot use a definition of 'woman' that is inconsistent with the Equality Act 2010, because modifying this Act falls outside its powers. We already went over this previously (although I'm not sure if there has been a further decision since then).

What is your point?
 
Ziggurat said:
Well, in many locations, women have to cover their nipples in public and men don't. There are efforts to change this, but their success has been limited so far. I don't think most women consider this extra requirement much of a burden. And while its a sex difference in clothing requirements, it doesn't actually match Emily's Cat specifications as described.

But I do wonder: how does the law cover males with breast implants? When are they required to cover their nipples, and when are they not? Does it depend on whether they consider themselves women?
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I was just thinking of the original Bill & Ted movie where they collect up the historical figures for their history report. It would be terrific to sit Abraham Lincoln down and try to explain to him that this would be a genuine question in 2022.
 
Attempts by Stonewall and other lobby groups to have the UN investigate and downgrade the EHRC have failed.

It appears, despite some confusion, that the UK government may proceed with banning conversion therapy for sexual orientation but not for gender identity, as recommended by the EHRC.
 
The Atheist said:
Very good, balanced piece here on trans rights.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rans-athletes-must-not-make-everyone-a-looser
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I see no reason for a balanced argument when I have a perfectly workable, simple, unbalanced solution.

Balance isn't necessarily good.

for example

This does not mean that men are “better” at sports than women, any more than the fact that world heavyweight boxing champion Oleksandr Usyk would probably knock out flyweight champion Julio Cesar Martinez means that he is a better boxer. Nevertheless, without sex-based categories we would see few women in the Olympics or at Wimbledon.
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Weight classes in sports are lame.
 
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The thing about that Guardian article is that it makes assumptions about the aims of both sides that I'm not sure are true.... I mean, in what way will turning the men's category into an open category give the trans-activists what they want. Yay! They will get to compete in sports with men and be prevented from competing with women.

It also assumed that the rational must be some position between the two where both sides discover common ground. I think this idea that fundamental disagreements like this are just some combination of a misunderstanding and ignorant bigotry is very common. Think back to the arguments about conservative Muslim parents not wanting their young kids being taught a progressive pro-gay curriculum. There is, I think, a persistent belief that Islam is fine, and being gay is fine and that if only Islam can be exposed to lots of gayness it will be fine with it and realise there is no incompatibility. That way of thinking seems like an article of faith.
 
Maybe we should designate the two categories as "People who are talked over and ignored" and "People whose every whim must be indulged" and we'd get the split right.
 
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I suggest we designate two categories, "People who are talked over and ignored" and "People whose every whim must be indulged" and then we'd get the split right.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I don't get it?
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Could be wrong, but I think it's a play on the whole "people listen to men but ignore women" thing.

Not terribly funny, but relevant to the whole "men make better women than women" theme we've been seeing.
 
UK EHRC has published new guidance on single sex spaces

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-guide-equality-act-sex-and-gender#who

Under these provisions, your approach must be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This will depend upon the nature of the service and may link to the reason the separate or single-sex service is needed. For example, a legitimate aim could be the privacy and dignity of others. You must then show that your action is a proportionate way to achieve that aim.

Example: A leisure centre introduces some female only fitness classes. It decides to exclude trans women because of the degree of physical contact involved in such classes.
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Ziggurat said:
Could be wrong, but I think it's a play on the whole "people listen to men but ignore women" thing.

Not terribly funny, but relevant to the whole "men make better women than women" theme we've been seeing.
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When I posted it, it was a wry commentary on the observation that transwomen obviously aren't women because if they were they'd be talked over and ignored and told what was good for them and to be kind, just like happens to women.

We know they can tell who are the women and who aren't in this way.
 
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