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Trans women are not women (Part 8)

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In other news, it appeared to me earlier today when following the Maya Forstater tribunal hearing, that her employer had pretty much explicitly admitted unfair dismissal under cross-examination. People who know a lot more than I do about the law appear to agree. It will certainly be interesting to see which way this one goes.
 
Rolfe said:
In other news, it appeared to me earlier today when following the Maya Forstater tribunal hearing, that her employer had pretty much explicitly admitted unfair dismissal under cross-examination. People who know a lot more than I do about the law appear to agree. It will certainly be interesting to see which way this one goes.
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I thought Ben Cooper was brilliant.
Allison Bailey's case against Stonewall will be another big one, starts 25th April. I heard Ben Cooper is on her team.
 
The Atheist said:
If only there were some logical, equitable and commonsense answer to trans in bathrooms.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/ed...ign-for-genderneutral-toilets-at-their-school
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As a result, Albany Senior High School will be converting eight disabled bathrooms into self-contained gender-neutral bathrooms, the first two of which will be completed during the next school holidays.
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Were the disabled bathrooms not already gender-neutral?

Here in Japan, they generally are accessible for anyone, but of course people with special needs are supposed to have priority and those who don't need to use them are supposed use the normal male or female loos.

The only question this plan leaves me with is, what about the disabled now?
 
p0lka said:
On the contrary,
words and meanings change throughout time, Man and woman don't seem to correlate with any particular sex anymore, it's like gender and sex have actually become different things.
You can stamp your feet and insist it's the same as it was in the old days......but it's not.
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Among the words whose meaning you seem to want to change is "correlate".

"Man and woman don't seem to correlate with any particular sex anymore" can you explain what you mean by this sentence? Because if it's in English, it's clearly false.
 
shuttlt said:
It's like you want us to return to some Rousseau fantasy of what man would be like in a state of nature, freed from the demands of society.
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Well I’ve been reading this thread from the start and haven’t seen anyone want this. What a number, including me, want is for biological men to stop invading women’s spaces, refuges, locker rooms, prisons and so on and to stay out of women’s sports.

Do you support Lia Thomas?
 
Rolfe said:
In other news, it appeared to me earlier today when following the Maya Forstater tribunal hearing, that her employer had pretty much explicitly admitted unfair dismissal under cross-examination. People who know a lot more than I do about the law appear to agree. It will certainly be interesting to see which way this one goes.
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It is absolutely clear that they did not run a fair process in dealing with her, and even their own witnesses were saying that at the time. I suspect that their only hope is arguing that she falls outside employment rules, but again their internal processes appear hopelessly muddled.
 
lionking said:
Well I’ve been reading this thread from the start and haven’t seen anyone want this. What a number, including me, want is for biological men to stop invading women’s spaces, refuges, locker rooms, prisons and so on and to stay out of women’s sports.

Do you support Lia Thomas?
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I think you have me the wrong way around. I think all this dancing around pretending we don't know what a woman is, and that people with testicles and penises might be women is at best a kind of insanity that speaks to an advanced state of decadence.
 
shuttlt said:
I think you have me the wrong way around. I think all this dancing around pretending we don't know what a woman is, and that people with testicles and penises might be women is at best a kind of insanity that speaks to an advanced state of decadence.
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Well if that is your beliefs your posts are confounding. And I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks that.
 
lionking said:
Well if that is your beliefs your posts are confounding. And I’m sure I’m not the only one who thinks that.
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OK. Yes, I'm sure they are unfamiliar here.

You quoted my post about Rousseau and the state of nature. He isn't harking back to some previous conservative state or pointing to something that actually existed in history. The social contract never actually happened. His state of nature is the original liberal fantasy of escaping societal norms.

It's the same here, trans-activists talk about gender as socially defined norms as if a society without socially defined norms was possible or desirable. When people argue, like I think p0lka was doing, that society is somehow imposing on the freedom of the individual by having gender norms... p0lka is walking in the footsteps of Rousseau.

The next step in thinking is typically that since no state of nature is possible, we are just going to replace the current norms with new ones, since they are all arbitrary, and this will magically transform the nature of man since we are after all born blank slates. You had Communist Man who would appear when Communism had achieved and could finally be truly free and truly equal since they would only want to do things that were compatible with equality, similarly the early EU dreamed of a European Man. Societal-norm free woke man is just another such vision.

Societal norms aren't really arbitrary though, since we aren't blank slates.
 
Trans-activists are interested in bathrooms like civil rights activists were interested in where people sat on busses. It's just the particular ground they have chosen to fight a battle on in a wider war.
 
Actually, going by their own writings, their main goal is prisons. If they can get male rapists incarcerated in the female prison estate on the basis of self-ID, so they reason, then there is nothing that can be denied them. So far, they're winning on that one.
 
It sounds like their goal is to have freedom in all ways and in all things to define themselves as they wish and have that definition be recognized as real. Prisons are just another battle that they think is favourable to carry them forward towards that goal.
 
The thinking was that prison was the most extreme demand. If they succeeded in that then nothing else could be denied to them.
 
California is introducing legislation to deny state cooperation with any of these anti-trans laws passing in red states.

The law would prohibit CA courts from:

1) enforcing judgements from out of state courts ordering removal of trans children from their homes based solely on the assertion that medical transition is child abuse

2) enforcing subpoena requests for medical records in such investigations

3) enforcing arrest warrants related to any such cases.

https://twitter.com/Scott_Wiener/status/1504464013773615112

The idea is that California will become a sanctuary state for families with trans children fleeing these red states passing bigoted and repressive anti-trans laws.

I'm not familiar enough with California state politics to know if this is something that would pass.
 
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Want to stunt your child's growth, reduce their IQ, sterilise them, prevent them from ever being sexually aroused, give them mutilating injuries that are likely to trouble them for decades, and set them on a path to being medical patients for life with increased risk of stroke, heart disease and cancer? Come to sunny California!

It's not a good look.
 
Rolfe said:
Want to stunt your child's growth, reduce their IQ, sterilise them, prevent them from ever being sexually aroused, give them mutilating injuries that are likely to trouble them for decades, and set them on a path to being medical patients for life with increased risk of stroke, heart disease and cancer? Come to sunny California!

It's not a good look.
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Yes, foster care in Texas is probably healthier.

Whoops, this one was found to be sex trafficking the children in their care.

Victims of child sex trafficking went to a foster facility where they allegedly were trafficked again
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/03/11/foster-care-sex-trafficking/

You really have to bend yourself into pretzels to do apologism for the state maliciously breaking up healthy families.

These laws don't pass the smell test. It's obvious its supporters are driven entirely by bigotry.
 
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