The Russian Invasion of the Ukraine.

[theprestige]

...and why in the heck would they do that? Russia's whole worry/argument about their security is nothing but a relic of the colonial era. Just because the class seating arrangement puts a pretty girl next to you does not mean that she has to be YOUR girlfriend instead of going with the guy on the other side of the classroom.

NATO did not "aggressively expand." They merely responded to already existing interest on the part of the newer membsrs. I can see no wrong in having done so. And I can see no right to demand otherwise on Russia's part.

If you want to have good relations with your neighbors, treating them well is vastly superior to demanding it as your right because of your own insecurity. Just being a good person (country) goes a long way, as a matter of fact.

Russia has no right to demand what they are demanding. PERIOD.

Also, so what if NATO did expand? It's always been a defensive alliance. The only reason for Russia to fear NATO expansion is if it intends to invade.

Exhibit A: Ukraine.

 

[shemp]

It seems to me there are some easy concessions Ukraine and its Western allies could easily make, and which would perhaps avoid further bloodshed and suffering:

(1) Accepting the independence of the two breakaway republics of Donbass (Donetsk and Lugansk). Russia could station troops there if deemed necessary for protection, upon invitation from their respective goverments.

(2) Accepting that Crimea is part of Russia.

(3) Accepting that Ukraine will not be a NATO member for at least 10 years.

(4) Lifting all economic sanctions imposed on Russia (even those which existed before this recent attack by Russia) provided that all Russian troops have left Ukraine (where they shouldn't be). With the understanding that a lifting of sanctions would also be good for Western economies and ordinary citizens.

Go take a long walk on a short pier.

 

[trustbutverify]

It seems to me there are some easy concessions Ukraine and its Western allies could easily make, and which would perhaps avoid further bloodshed and suffering:

(1) Accepting the independence of the two breakaway republics of Donbass (Donetsk and Lugansk). Russia could station troops there if deemed necessary for protection, upon invitation from their respective goverments.

(2) Accepting that Crimea is part of Russia.

(3) Accepting that Ukraine will not be a NATO member for at least 10 years.

(4) Lifting all economic sanctions imposed on Russia (even those which existed before this recent attack by Russia) provided that all Russian troops have left Ukraine (where they shouldn't be). With the understanding that a lifting of sanctions would also be good for Western economies and ordinary citizens.

Why not just have RF be the only state authorized for a nuclear arsenal, while you're at it?

 

[shemp]

No, Russia cannot have Belgium because Belgian citizens are certainly not interested in becoming Russian (Belgium is not like Crimea).

RT.com reports:

(https://www.rt.com/russia/550880-putin-macron-ukraine-conditions/)

It seem to me that the highlighted part is completely unacceptable, Mr. Putin.

Ukraine is not Nazi Germany, it is not planning to invade Russia (nor does NATO). Ukraine is an independant country, it is no longer part of the Soviet Union, and it is perfectly entitled to having a military of its own.

Belgium is historically part of the Netherlands. 60% of Belgium is the Dutch-speaking Flemish community. Belgium has no good reason to exist as a separate entity. I think the Netherlands should invade Belgium.

 

[trustbutverify]

For those of us who don't believe the Russian invasion was to "protect" the Russian-speaking majorities in Crimea, Donetsk, and Lugansk, (3) would not be acceptable. Giving Russia control of Donetsk and Lugansk would allow them to start the next invasion from a more forward position in the east.

And what a staging area it would be. I have no doubt this is the point.

 

[trustbutverify]

Can you think of easy concessions that Russia could make?
I can:

1. Pull back all troops into Russia and return them to their home bases
2. Tell the thugs of the phony "people's republics" that they are on their own now and better go home
3. Pay for the damage they caused in Ukraine and offer a sincere apology

Sounds good?

Yes. Oh wait, you weren't asking me.

 

[crescent]

I am curious about the difference between providing military equipment to the Ukraine and "providing military equipment". It feels like there would be some loopholes when it comes to engaging Russian forces within the Ukraine by other countries.

I was kind of wondering what would happen if we "supplied them American-made with drones", and pretended that Ukraine was the one operating the drones. No learning curve if some American kid in Omaha is operating the thing, and it would be well-neigh impossible for Russia to prove the operator isn't Ukrainian.

 

[Mike!]

Can you think of easy concessions that Russia could make?
I can:

1. Pull back all troops into Russia and return them to their home bases
2. Tell the thugs of the phony "people's republics" that they are on their own now and better go home
3. Pay for the damage they caused in Ukraine and offer a sincere apology

Sounds good?

You left off, Putin's head on a pike.
I'm sure it was a simple oversight, please carry on.

 

[dudalb]

Minor, but Disney just announced it is freezing all theatrical film releases to Russia, and where Disney goes the other studios usually follow.
Given the popularity of western movies in Russia, this will increase the feeling of isolation .

 

[dudalb]

Yeah, but if Russia invaded Belgium, it isn't like you would have a choice, is it?

Belgium has a history of just rolling over.

Not really. THey put up a good defense in 1914, but did sort of collapse quickkly in 1940.

 

[dudalb]

...and why in the heck would they do that? Russia's whole worry/argument about their security is nothing but a relic of the colonial era. Just because the class seating arrangement puts a pretty girl next to you does not mean that she has to be YOUR girlfriend instead of going with the guy on the other side of the classroom.

NATO did not "aggressively expand." They merely responded to already existing interest on the part of the newer membsrs. I can see no wrong in having done so. And I can see no right to demand otherwise on Russia's part.

If you want to have good relations with your neighbors, treating them well is vastly superior to demanding it as your right because of your own insecurity. Just being a good person (country) goes a long way, as a matter of fact.

Russia has no right to demand what they are demanding. PERIOD. Basic social skills should tell you this. It doesn't require knowing anything about foreign policy.

And history has shown if you let people like Putin get away with it , they will do it again.

 

[Arcade22]

There's a 17 mile long column of Russian armour heading towards Kyiv.

Well damn. I mean that's a lot of vehicles.

I love how the media is just repeating the numbers coming from the company in question without any fact checking or verification. Thanks for the free publicity.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Maxar are now claiming it's 40 miles long.

That..that I have a hard time believing. That sounds like the kind of numbers that the Russian military just doesn't have.

 

[mgidm86]

Russia's 17-mile convoy is thwarted on the road to Kyiv



I looked it up to see if there really was a 17 mile convoy...



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/28/russias-17-mile-convoy-thwarted-road-kyiv/

Military experts said the column stretching up to 17 miles was a sitting duck for Ukrainian artillery and drone strikes. About 20 miles from where it was last spotted, the Russian advance appeared to have hit a wall.
.....
“Look what they did to my home, but we gave as good as we got and now all that’s left of the invader is spare parts,” said one resident, giving a running commentary on mobile phone footage in reference to the remnants of tanks and other Russian kit. He could have been talking about body parts, too. Other videos showed the corpses of Russian troops.

Wasn't sure what else to quote.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Amazing. God the Russians are incompetent.

 

[Manopolus]

Is Turkey in NATO?

Technically, yes. That has occasionally been awkward, but nonetheless...

 

[trustbutverify]

Maxar are now claiming it's 40 miles long.

That..that I have a hard time believing. That sounds like the kind of numbers that the Russian military just doesn't have.

Hell no.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Even if it was 40 miles long, which is just...ridiculous, it's currently not moving and being shot to bits. Russia REALLY suck at war.

 

[Venom]

I've come across a half dozen of short articles about the 17-mile Russian convoy the Telegraph one is the only one that says it was "thwarted".

Not many details. Just looks like a compilation of different unconfirmed reports in every one of these breaking news pieces.

 

[Arcade22]

“A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia’s military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era…Russia is restoring its unity—the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe in our history, has been overcome. Yes, at a great cost, yes, through the tragic events of a virtual civil war…but there will be no more Ukraine, as the anti-Russia.”

That triumphal article appeared on the site of Ria Novosti, Russia’s main state online news agency, on February 26th. It declared: “Russia restoring its historical fullness, gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together—in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians [a pre-Soviet term for Ukrainians].” Ukraine, it said, has returned to Russia. And the great leader, Vladimir Putin, “has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility” for this “solution” to “the Ukrainian question”.

Presumably the publication of this screed was scheduled well in advance, on the assumption that Mr Putin’s forces would win a quick and easy victory, and someone forgot to cancel it. The day it appeared on Ria Novosti’s site, heavy fighting unfolded around Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, and Ukrainian forces repelled the Russian invaders.

https://www.economist.com/europe/20...ropaganda-machine-is-running-at-full-throttle

Margarita Simonyan, editor in chief of RT, also made similar premature triumphalist statements such as saying that the invasion was nothing but a "military parade" that they were going to hold it Kiev.