Liberalism versus conservatism in skepticism

Mycroft said:
Okay, good point. There is some liberal woo that Skepticism does filter out too.

However I would argue that new age isn't exactly political and that post modernists couldn't put together a cogent argument anyway, so maybe they don't count. :)
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Oh no, the post modernists put together some very useful (but wrong) political arguments, unfortunately it took the fundies to bring the techniques to the masses. :(
 
gnome said:
Hey, I made the list of JREF liberals! :)

I'm disappointed though, I think it is as important to rein in the extreme left as it is to do so to the extreme right, and I thought I made a habit of pointing out when a "leftist" comment goes too far in my opinion... oh well, if it's not noticed, maybe I can do better in the future.
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Actually, I added you specifically to elevate the quality of the liberals on the list.

See, initially it was 3 and 3, but just before I hit the "submit" button I had this sudden realization that the conservatives I named totally outclassed the liberals, and that wasn't very fair. My solution? Well, I should have started over and picked three different liberals of higher caliber, but instead I just added your name to balance it out.
 
brodski said:
OK, but if you are more "liberal" (in the US sense) than conservative, you do a damn good job of hiding it on this forum.
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That's one of the reasons I started this thread. I'm a Democrat, I vote Democrat, all my friends are liberals (mostly) and I support all the traditional liberal values, yet on this forum I seem to have a lot more in common with the conservatives than I do with the liberals.

Why?

Well, part of it is that although I consider myself liberal, I consider myself a moderate liberal. Pretty close to center, actually, but still to the left of center. My theory is once you chop away the lunatic conservative, then a moderate on the left might become right of center just because the center has now moved.

Make sense?
 
Or, as I say, I'm a conservative because I live in California. If I were to move to Texas, I'd be a liberal.
 
Mycroft said:
That's one of the reasons I started this thread. I'm a Democrat, I vote Democrat, all my friends are liberals (mostly) and I support all the traditional liberal values, yet on this forum I seem to have a lot more in common with the conservatives than I do with the liberals.

Why?

Well, part of it is that although I consider myself liberal, I consider myself a moderate liberal. Pretty close to center, actually, but still to the left of center. My theory is once you chop away the lunatic conservative, then a moderate on the left might become right of center just because the center has now moved.

Make sense?
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True in principle, but then, when viewed from my European perspective, you are very conservative.

Is that me nominating myself as one of the loony left then? :p
 
Mycroft said:
I never said you were part of the "lunatic left." Quite the opposite, I identified you as being on the left (agree? Disagree?) who is unlikely to eviscerate the "lunatic left" .

See the difference?
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I do and apologize to you for misunderstanding. My bad.

I don't believe most conservatives believe Jesus is on their side any more than I believe most liberals hate America, but there are certainly examples of both that are quite real.
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I am not aware of any liberals or conservatives who hate America. Unless you want to lump liberals in with the far extreme head cases. In which case, you will have to lump the KKK and Neo Nazis with the conservatives---who certainly hate America--- if you want to be fair about it.
 
Mycroft said:
Actually, I added you specifically to elevate the quality of the liberals on the list.
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Oh, I'm hurt!




I have never been called a liberal before and I profoundly resent it. Cut it out or I'll have to call you a partisan hack again!
 
Mycroft said:
That's one of the reasons I started this thread. I'm a Democrat, I vote Democrat, all my friends are liberals (mostly) and I support all the traditional liberal values, yet on this forum I seem to have a lot more in common with the conservatives than I do with the liberals.

Why?

Well, part of it is that although I consider myself liberal, I consider myself a moderate liberal. Pretty close to center, actually, but still to the left of center. My theory is once you chop away the lunatic conservative, then a moderate on the left might become right of center just because the center has now moved.

Make sense?
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I complained in the past about most democrats being "republican lite", and boy was I right or what? Or maybe you're just making this up, I dunno... Anyway... Do you realise that your "moderate liberalism" corresponds to "hard right" in Canada?
 
Orwell said:
I complained in the past about most democrats being "republican lite", and boy was I right or what? Or maybe you're just making this up, I dunno... Anyway... Do you realise that your "moderate liberalism" corresponds to "hard right" in Canada?
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I've heard that but it doesn't really matter. I believe what I think is right, and if I let things like that influence me, all I would be doing is bending to peer pressure.

Are you really Ex Lion Tamer?
 
Mycroft said:
Well, part of it is that although I consider myself liberal, I consider myself a moderate liberal. Pretty close to center, actually, but still to the left of center. My theory is once you chop away the lunatic conservative, then a moderate on the left might become right of center just because the center has now moved.

Make sense?
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Not quite Mycroft. I don't think that a person well on the extreme end of the political spectrum is a "loon". They could have idealisitic views that will never come to frutition, but a socialist or a laizze-faire capitalist can both be perfectly rational. One can be quite extreme without being a "Jesus votes republican" or "American is always wrong" charicature.
 
Mycroft said:
I've heard that but it doesn't really matter. I believe what I think is right, and if I let things like that influence me, all I would be doing is bending to peer pressure.
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In a sense, you are already bending to peer pressure: your views often conform very closely to what is considered politically acceptable within american culture.

Mycroft said:
Are you really Ex Lion Tamer?
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That's none of your business. ;)
 
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Orwell said:
In a sense, you are already bending to peer pressure: your views often conform very closely to what is considered politically acceptable within american culture.
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And if I changed my opinions because that bothered me (and it doesn't) that would be wrong too. The only reasonable of what I should think is what meets the standards of my own intellect and ethics.
 
Mycroft said:
And if I changed my opinions because that bothered me (and it doesn't) that would be wrong too. The only reasonable of what I should think is what meets the standards of my own intellect and ethics.
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Sure, but don't forget to take into account that your intellect and ethics reflect what you know and are familiar with.
 
Mycroft said:
Why do you think that's significant?
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Because if you don't know much and there's little you're familiar with, there's a good chance that your intellect and ethics will reflect that...

Good night Mycroft.
 
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