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Cont: Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

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jimbob said:
Petra this, I am not sure whether you believe COVID-19 is real, whether you believe it is caused by SARS-COV-2, whether you believe it is serious.

In fact nothing beyond that you disagree with Cosmic Yak.
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I actually take that as a compliment.
If someone so obviously wrong- blinkered, confused and unable to think critically- disagrees with me, then I must be doing something right.
 
Resume said:
My wife is a social worker and saw COVID deaths up close and personal at the very beginnings of this pandemic. My daughter and her husband contracted the virus recently, but because they took advantage of the life-saving vaccines (and boosters) they did well despite comorbidities.

Also posted upthread were links to papers demonstrating the isolation and sequencing of SARS-CoV-2, and how it causes COVID-19. I see no reason to repeat this information ad infinitum, jumping through hoops held by posters who have been too well gulled by the propaganda they've consumed.
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Indeed.
This insistence by Petra that she has seen no factual rebuttals to her claims is way beyond the limits of plausibility. It is testament to the power of disinformation that she is- honestly or not- unable to acknowledge even the presence of counter-arguments. Scary and tragic in equal measures.
 
bruto said:
The fact that you can't imagine how such a global conspiracy could work is the greatest triumph of the global conspiracy. If you deny the obvious because it is obvious, you cannot lose an argument. It's brilliant.
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Dang, they are always one step ahead of us sheeple.:eek:
 
Petra said:
I had to drop out and just dropped back in but I seem to remember I asked a question of you Cosmic Yak that I didn't receive an answer to - I might have missed it - but in case not I'll ask again.

If the pandemic is a scam as a minority claim then signs of the scam should be apparent right from the start. My study of psyops shows that, generally, the scam will be a complete hoax, all made up, not a mix of real and fake, except where it suits and from the outset I couldn't see any reason at all why they'd want a real virus as part of the psyop - you cannot control a virus and the reality of trying to use a real virus would totally get in the way. Moreover, they really like to put the HOAX in hoax and really have a laugh at us by pushing their fakery right in our faces, it's not about replicating reality or simulating it as much as possible, that's not how they do it - with psyop propaganda, humiliation with nonsense is the name of the game. I mean, they only needed a couple of planes into the twin towers for their terror story (impossible of itself according to air defence protocol and a few other things) but no - no, no, no - they had their band of boxcutter-armed hijackers in their passenger airliner plough into Defence HQ. Yes, Defence HQ! Imagine that!

By rights, there should have been red faces, no? By rights, the US government should have been attacked by their critics and certainly taxpayers should have been asking a few questions about how, supposedly, the best defended airspace in the world turned out to be, in fact, completely vulnerable. How did this happen? Congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney did ask after all. She did ask. She asked in Congress:
https://youtu.be/NcEUnDTOj_g?t=1557

"Did the four war games happening on the morning of 9/11 impair the military’s ability to respond to the attacks?”

Her question was responded to by General Richard Myers, Acting Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff on 9/11, as follows:

“The answer to the question is no, it did not impair our response, in fact General Eberhart who was in the command of the North American Aerospace Defense Command as he testified in front of the 9/11 Commission I believe … I believe he told them that it enhanced our ability to respond, given that NORAD didn’t have the overall responsibility for responding to the attacks that day, that was an FAA responsibility. But there were two CPXs [Command Post Exercises]; there was one Department of Justice exercise that didn’t have anything to do with the other three and there was an actual operation ongoing because there was some Russian bomber activity up near Alaska.”

If you believe that ...

I digress. So my question is, Cosmic Yak, where do you disagree with my claim that what is put forward for suspicion of a "novel" virus is completely unscientific?

Suspicion of a "novel" virus is based on an alleged "cluster" of 44 cases of pneumonia of "unknown origin" in the highly-polluted city of Wuhan.
A "cluster" is presumably identified by the fact of "unknown origin", however, pneumonia is not thought to have a "known origin" particularly so "unknown origin" makes no sense. 44 cases in a highly-polluted city doesn't make a cluster in the first place but if a cluster were to be determined on the basis of 44 cases then surely there would be specific symptoms that identified it, not the claim of "unknown origin".

Then, if indeed these 44 cases of pneumonia were caused by a novel virus why is the association between pneumonia and the novel virus now completely lost?

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2020-DON229

Where is the "science" in this suspicion? Pray, do tell.
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:confused:
Is this a 'poe'?
 
Cosmic Yak said:
Indeed.
This insistence by Petra that she has seen no factual rebuttals to her claims is way beyond the limits of plausibility. It is testament to the power of disinformation that she is- honestly or not- unable to acknowledge even the presence of counter-arguments. Scary and tragic in equal measures.
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Well, here's the thing.... you can only see what you are looking at. If you only look inside the bonkers, conspiracy theorist echo-chamber of stupid, you are never going to see factual rebuttals of bonkers, conspiracy theorist or stupid ideas. Its that simple, and its never going to change as long as the stupid remain stupid.

Ron White said it best... "If your eyes go bad you can have Lasik surgery and they give you 20/20 vision at any age. If your hearing starts to fail they can put a device in your ear that'll make you able to hear as good as you could the day you were born, but let me tell you something folks - you can't fix stupid! There's not a pill you can take, there's not a class you can go to. Stupid is forever!"
 
Petra said:
...o air defence protocol and a few other things) but no - no, no, no - they had their band of boxcutter-armed hijackers in their passenger airliner plough into Defence HQ. Yes, Defence HQ! Imagine that!

By rights, there should have been red faces, no? By rights, the US government should have been attacked by their critics and certainly taxpayers should have been asking a few questions about how, supposedly, the best defended airspace in the world turned out to be, in fact, completely vulnerable. How did this happen? Congresswoman, Cynthia McKinney did ask after all. She did ask. She asked in Congress:
https://youtu.be/NcEUnDTOj_g?t=1557

"Did the four war games happening on the morning of 9/11 impair the military’s ability to respond to the attacks?”

Her question was responded to by General Richard Myers, Acting Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff on 9/11, as follows:

“The answer to the question is no, it did not impair our response, in fact General Eberhart who was in the command of the North American Aerospace Defense Command as he testified in front of the 9/11 Commission I believe … I believe he told them that it enhanced our ability to respond, given that NORAD didn’t have the overall responsibility for responding to the attacks that day, that was an FAA responsibility. But there were two CPXs [Command Post Exercises]; there was one Department of Justice exercise that didn’t have anything to do with the other three and there was an actual operation ongoing because there was some Russian bomber activity up near Alaska.”

If you believe that ...


https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease-outbreak-news/item/2020-DON229

Where is the "science" in this suspicion? Pray, do tell.
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Failed to relate this to your covid claims? Not a good analogy, but it does...

Expose ignorance on NORAD and 9/11, and a propensity to believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories due to ignorance... Is that indicative of your Covid conspiracy theories/claims?
 
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Having now caught up, I can see that Petra's post isn't 'poe'.
Petra, please take a look at my 'Custom Title' (the text underneath my username), then please click on the little banner with the hat.
I despise your and your cohort's denial of covid and it's effects. Not because I disagree with your conclusions or assumptions, but because you are killing people. The lies you spread are deadly, please at least try to understand the harms you spread. Please.
 
almost 20 million excess deaths

Petra said:
We should be able to tell there is a pandemic without media and government keeping us informed 24/7...If it is a psyop then the figures will be fraudulent - assigning mortality to covid when the cause is something else is probably the most common kind of fraud.

This is MSM in Australia - mainstream commercial radio telling us that the median age of women dying from covid is 86 and that of men 81. MSM!
https://www.facebook.com/TurningPointAustralia/videos/3863750390515887/
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Petra,

An advantage of using excess deaths is that there is no assignment of mortality to one thing or another. Australia Either the figures from The Economist are trustworthy or they are not, a question that you did not directly answer.
 
Petra said:
I started with the presumption that it was a psyop when they showed us people falling flat on their faces and told us that two species of snakes were "reservoirs" of the virus.

Do you think I was hasty?

I think not, because psyops have such a distinctive MO.
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Well, your first problem is you started with the presumption that this was a psychological operation. So, definitionally, you were hasty.

Which psychological operations have you studied? What you're describing doesn't really sound like any psyops I've read about. I don't claim any expertise. However, I've read about the operations related to the Normandy Invasion in WWII and the Choi Hoi program. The things you're describing don't look remotely like actual psychological operations.
 
Petra said:
I think the definition you put forward is pretty reasonable.



"Military actions" - Yep, though not exclusively military and definitely involve intelligence which is obviously to be expected.



"Designed to influence the perceptions and attitudes of individuals, groups and foreign governments" - Yep, though could specify that the individuals and groups can often be the citizens of the country a government is attempting to influence and sometimes it goes further than perceptions and attitudes to actual behaviour and involves changes of law, etc.



Australia's disgraced Attorney-General, Christian Porter:



"So we're watching this very carefully in anticipation of the fact that for the first time, in Australia, laws will need to be used on a scale that will present a different experience for Australia."



Attorney General, Christian Porter, Doorstop - Parliament House, 3 March 2020
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Some will pretend psyops do not exist, or that tyrants are not applying the military version to citizens.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 
Bubba said:
Some will pretend psyops do not exist, or that tyrants are not applying the military version to citizens.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
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Not surprisingly, you miss the point entirely. The problem with Petra's approach is not dependent on the existence of psyops, nor, for that matter, even on whether her conclusions are right or wrong. The problem is that it's a mistake to start with a conclusion and then fit your evidence to it.

I realize that is a hard concept for some to come to grips with, especially if it impugns their own habits, but if nothing else it's a bar to general acceptance and thus not a very productive way to argue.
 
Petra said:
I started with the presumption that it was a psyop when they showed us people falling flat on their faces and told us that two species of snakes were "reservoirs" of the virus.
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You still haven't shared this video of people falling flat on their faces.
 
Bubba said:
Some will pretend psyops do not exist, or that tyrants are not applying the military version to citizens.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
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Psychological operations exist. There have been famous and well documented ones. You just lack the ability to identify them.
 
Petra said:
(some snippage)
So I very hastily judged the pandemic to be a psyop but I cannot ignore evidence, can I? If it LOOKED like a psyop at the outset but then proved not to be because of evidence that showed it wasn't I would've had to change my mind. However, I didn't see any come along.

1. Suspicion of "novel" virus - based on unscientific foundation.
2. Determination of new virus - ditto.
3. Claim of virus isolation debunked.
4. No evidence of virus or any pathogen causing the alleged covid which doesn't have a distinctive set of symptoms.
5. Clear evidence that covid is being put as cause of mortality where there are co-morbidities ... and most mortality is in old people.
6. No signs of a pandemic which should be clear without being told by media and government.
7. PCR test not fit for purpose (admitted on packet not a diagnostic test).
8. Unprecedented measures of control.

That's enough for me if it's not enough for you.
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Petra, please go over to PubMed and look through a few of the 146,000+ articles on Sars-Cov-2 and the 230,000 articles on COVID-19, and tell me where they're wrong. If you can show evidence you have an advanced degree in immunology I'll be prepared to say you have a case.

My point is, the same huge amount of information that convinced you the moon landings happened as described is also available for the conclusion the Sars-Cov-2 virus and COVID-19 (the disease it causes) are real.

A challenge for you start by assuming the moon landings were fake and look for evidence that they were. You'll find a ton! Compare that evidence with the evidence you're using to support your claim COVID-19 is fake. Then do the same for the idea both the moon landings and COVID-19 are real.

Compare and contrast the sites supporting both sides of both claims. In my opinion, you'll find a lot of similarities in the sites that say the moon landing and COVID-19 are fake, and in the sites saying both are real.
 
Why should saying two species of snakes are reservoirs of the virus have anything to do with a psyop? You might as well pin words to the wall and throw darts at them. What's the square root of a zebra?

Even it if weren't true, what does that mean other than that it's a mistake. Which it probably isn't, though, as many animals have been quite abundantly shown to be just that. There is plenty of evidence, for example, that white tail deer are a reservoir of the virus, although that might require a believe in the existence of deer.

Of course you can't believe that if you start from the premise that the virus is imaginary. Of course there can be no reservoir of it if there is no it. Of course if you start from the premise that everything about the virus is a lie, all the evidence must be a lie too. Once again, it's backward reasoning, with the conclusion determining the evidence.
 
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