Cont: Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

[Petra]

Just out of curiosity, when and at what university did you study psyops? And under what kind of degree - I've checked the curricula of a couple of major universities and I'm pretty sure none of them offer a Batchelor of Psyops degree.

Good one. The thing about psyops is that you just sit at your computer and study them - which suits me! You don't need to go put on your scholar, private investigator or any other particular hat. All you have to do is look at what the media presents and it's all laid bare. The basics of a psyop can be worked out in five minutes, depending on how long it runs - if it's just a daylong one then depending on the availability of information 5 minutes may well be enough. If I knew before 9/11 happened what I know now I would've worked out pretty much before the day was over if I'd been watching TV whereas it took me about six years of study to really work it out - only because I didn't understand the MO - God I was clueless for a few years of study there.

 

[smartcooky]

What it means is that in psyops they don't try very hard to make their narrative believable ... which might seem counterintuitive but not when you consider the nature of power. Power can do what it likes, it doesn't have to present a good case, in fact, it works better when it doesn't.

The most pertinent quote regarding propaganda and psyops is this edited quote from British psychiatrist, Anthony Daniels. (The edit is essentially the removal of the word "communist" before "propaganda" because it applies to all propaganda not just that used in communist countries.)

"The purpose of propaganda is not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponds to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."
Edited quote from Theodore Dalrymple, aka Anthony Daniels, British psychiatrist.

C-3PO is a British psychiatrist? Who knew?

 

[Resume]

AFAIK

Not very far.

No one cares about the plague rat truckers, save their fellow plague rats.

 

[Resume]

Which means you have been posting propaganda the whole time.

Pretty much.

 

[Resume]

I have noticed over the years that people who say they have studied "psyops" have been studying real events that weren't psyops.

Much in the way anti-vax, anti-science, anti-reality fringers think consuming propaganda is research, and masks and mandates are facism, or communism depending on which fringer is misunderstanding and mis-applying those terms.

 

[Petra]

I have noticed over the years that people who say they have studied "psyops" have been studying real events that weren't psyops.

Certainly the moon landings happened and were an astonishing achievement and I accept the science on man-made climate change although I have to say I'll need to revisit realising as I do now how fraudulent science can be. The thing is with climate change I didn't believe it so much because of the 97% consensus of climate scientists but because whichever debunking arguments have been put forward that I've looked at, a reasonable response has always produced without further noise from the climate change deniers. I find the website SkepticalScience excellent for responses to the debunking arguments.

I don't believe I looked at the debunking arguments because I doubted the 97% consensus so much as I was curious to see what the other side was saying. What did they have to say? Could there be any merit in it? I just wanted to know.

The same does not apply to covid-19. There is a DEARTH of responses to the arguments debunking the covid pandemic ... and the fact is I can completely see the validity of the debunking.

I have to say that while I respect Kary Mullis as a brilliant scientist and agree with him on his debunking of HIV-causes-AIDS argument, I find his attempt at debunking man-made climate change pretty pathetic. He did not follow his motto, "The scientist aims to disprove his hypothesis wrong," in what he put forward to debunk - namely, he quoted a paper that spoke of decadal variability, however, it was a very specific type of variability and the authors themselves certainly did not intend it to mean that there wasn't a general temperature increase. He also inferred from a greater increase in night-time than daytime temperature that the Urban Heat Island effect explained it when, in fact, the boundary-layer of the atmosphere is much smaller in night-time ... I mean I don't know anything about it really but I can tell that Kary's debunking has no legs, it's not properly researched.

So brilliant scientists are sometimes guided by their prejudices ... just like the rest of us.

 

[Resume]

God I was clueless for a few years of study there.

Don't sell yourself short.

 

[Petra]

The implication is that because a "psyop" would not benefit from a real virus the virus must be fake. Of course, if you start from the presumption that the whole pandemic thing is a psyop, you've already drawn a conclusion that answers all subsequent questions before they are asked. You could stop right there and save your hands from the risk of repetitive stress and your keyboard from quotation-mark fatigue.

I started with the presumption that it was a psyop when they showed us people falling flat on their faces and told us that two species of snakes were "reservoirs" of the virus.

Do you think I was hasty?

I think not, because psyops have such a distinctive MO.

People falling flat on their faces and the notion that an only just-discovered virus was found in Chinese cobras and many-banded kraits makes absolutely no sense whatsoever ... a typical sign of a psyop.

So I very hastily judged the pandemic to be a psyop but I cannot ignore evidence, can I? If it LOOKED like a psyop at the outset but then proved not to be because of evidence that showed it wasn't I would've had to change my mind. However, I didn't see any come along.

1. Suspicion of "novel" virus - based on unscientific foundation.
2. Determination of new virus - ditto.
3. Claim of virus isolation debunked.
4. No evidence of virus or any pathogen causing the alleged covid which doesn't have a distinctive set of symptoms.
5. Clear evidence that covid is being put as cause of mortality where there are co-morbidities ... and most mortality is in old people.
6. No signs of a pandemic which should be clear without being told by media and government.
7. PCR test not fit for purpose (admitted on packet not a diagnostic test).
8. Unprecedented measures of control.

That's enough for me if it's not enough for you.

 

[Aridas]

What it means is that in psyops they don't try very hard to make their narrative believable ... which might seem counterintuitive but not when you consider the nature of power. Power can do what it likes, it doesn't have to present a good case, in fact, it works better when it doesn't.

The most pertinent quote regarding propaganda and psyops is this edited quote from British psychiatrist, Anthony Daniels. (The edit is essentially the removal of the word "communist" before "propaganda" because it applies to all propaganda not just that used in communist countries.)

"The purpose of propaganda is not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponds to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."
Edited quote from Theodore Dalrymple, aka Anthony Daniels, British psychiatrist.

Just to poke at this - you're engaging in fallacy with a wrong-headed edit used to push a narrative that you find attractive, even if it is full of holes. Certainly, the form of propaganda cited exists, but it is just one subset of a significantly larger whole and overgeneralizing it will do little but interfere with actual understanding. Going a bit further, totalitarian propaganda should never be treated as if it represents the wholeness of propaganda, much like nearly any totalitarian version of something should never be treated as if it was a full accounting of that subject.

 

[Petra]

... Going a bit further, totalitarian propaganda should never be treated as if it represents the wholeness of propaganda, much like nearly any totalitarian version of something should never be treated as if it was a full accounting of that subject.

If the shoe fits ...

Obviously, if you don't accept psyops as a phenomenon you won't see the way that propaganda is used to humiliate us ... but if you do recognise them as a phenomenon then you may well recognise how ridiculous their narrative can be. What so very much fascinates me is that people who recognise psyops somehow baulk at recognising how deliberately ridiculous the narrative is. It's as if they think the ridiculousness is somehow accidental when it can only be deliberate.

Non-psyop Western propaganda may not be of the same ilk as psyop propaganda but I guess I don't really look at it.

 

[Aridas]

If the shoe fits ...

It doesn't. Not even remotely.

Obviously, if you don't accept psyops as a phenomenon you won't see the way that propaganda is used to humiliate us ... but if you do recognise them as a phenomenon then you may well recognise how ridiculous their narrative can be.

Meh. To be clear, I don't particularly desire to get into a larger discussion about "psyops," especially when I strongly suspect that "psyops" is not being used with a clear and common definition. Using a clear and common definition like, say, - "military actions designed to influence the perceptions and attitudes of individuals, groups, and foreign governments" already ends up pretty well negating your attempted usage/misuse and leaves us in territory where it's quite hard to have a meaningful discussion without significant and annoying clarification first.

What so very much fascinates me is that people who recognise psyops somehow baulk at recognising how deliberately ridiculous the narrative is. It's as if they think the ridiculousness is somehow accidental when it can only be deliberate.

Non-psyop Western propaganda may not be of the same ilk as psyop propaganda but I guess I don't really look at it.

In today's world, virtually all of us are bombarded with numerous kinds of propaganda. To be more clear about what I'm talking about, though, I'm going to arbitrarily quote wikipedia's summary.

Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda, which may not be objective and may be selectively presenting facts to encourage a particular synthesis or perception, or using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response to the information that is being presented.[1] Propaganda can be found in news and journalism, government, advertising, entertainment, education, and activism[2] and is often associated with material which is prepared by governments as part of war efforts, political campaigns, health campaigns, revolutionaries, big businesses, ultra-religious organizations, the media, and certain individuals such as soapboxers.

In the 20th century, the English term propaganda was often associated with a manipulative approach, but historically, propaganda has been a neutral descriptive term of any material that promotes certain opinions or ideologies.[1][3] Equivalent non-English terms have also largely retained the original neutral connotation.

A wide range of materials and media are used for conveying propaganda messages, which changed as new technologies were invented, including paintings, cartoons, posters, pamphlets, films, radio shows, TV shows, and websites. More recently, the digital age has given rise to new ways of disseminating propaganda, for example, bots and algorithms are currently being used to create computational propaganda and fake or biased news and spread it on social media.

Your attempt, to me, comes across as little more convincing than you trying to claim that a hammer, a wrench, a screwdriver, and a sponge all have the primary purpose of being weapons to violently attack people.

 

[Petra]

... Meh. To be clear, I don't particularly desire to get into a larger discussion about "psyops," especially when I strongly suspect that "psyops" is not being used with a clear and common definition. Using a clear and common definition like, say, - "military actions designed to influence the perceptions and attitudes of individuals, groups, and foreign governments" already ends up pretty well negating your attempted usage/misuse and leaves us in territory where it's quite hard to have a meaningful discussion without significant and annoying clarification first.

I think the definition you put forward is pretty reasonable.

"Military actions" - Yep, though not exclusively military and definitely involve intelligence which is obviously to be expected.

"Designed to influence the perceptions and attitudes of individuals, groups and foreign governments" - Yep, though could specify that the individuals and groups can often be the citizens of the country a government is attempting to influence and sometimes it goes further than perceptions and attitudes to actual behaviour and involves changes of law, etc.

Australia's disgraced Attorney-General, Christian Porter:

"So we're watching this very carefully in anticipation of the fact that for the first time, in Australia, laws will need to be used on a scale that will present a different experience for Australia."

Attorney General, Christian Porter, Doorstop - Parliament House, 3 March 2020

 

[Chris_Halkides]

excess deaths during the pandemic

6. No signs of a pandemic which should be clear without being told by media and government.

"This work by The Economist is currently the most comprehensive and rigorous attempt to understand how mortality has changed during the pandemic at the global level...Some of the specific figures are highly uncertain, as the large uncertainty intervals show. But the overall conclusion remains clear: in many countries and globally, the number of confirmed deaths from COVID-19 is far below the pandemic’s full death toll." Our world in data. The present estimate is almost 20 million excess deaths.

 

[Steve]

AFAIK no major western leader has objected to the crushing of dissent in Canada. Tacit approval from all of them.

That is SO cool !!


Warms the heart, dont it, fellers?

No eastern leaders either. Or northern, or southern, or any other leaders that I am aware of. Just a few uneducated followers of any conspiracy theory that can get their hands on.

You do realize, perhaps, that legal demonstrations and protests on exactly the same topic are ongoing in Canada at this very moment with no "crushing" of any kind occurring?

 

[Aridas]

I think the definition you put forward is pretty reasonable.

It's a clear and common definition, after all. With that said...

"Military actions" - Yep, though not exclusively military and definitely involve intelligence which is obviously to be expected.

Much as trying to remove the military aspect does leave one on notably more shaky ground to call something a psyop, specifically, even if it may have some distinct similarities. COINTELPRO, for example, doesn't appear to be military or related intelligence-based and would thus be much more difficult to qualify as a psyop, despite having notable points of overlap with a psyop and being *quite* problematic in many ways.

"Designed to influence the perceptions and attitudes of individuals, groups and foreign governments" - Yep, though could specify that the individuals and groups can often be the citizens of the country a government is attempting to influence and sometimes it goes further than perceptions and attitudes to actual behaviour and involves changes of law, etc.

More specifically, an operation like that is done in hopes of causing changes in actual behavior.

Australia's disgraced Attorney-General, Christian Porter:

"So we're watching this very carefully in anticipation of the fact that for the first time, in Australia, laws will need to be used on a scale that will present a different experience for Australia."

Attorney General, Christian Porter, Doorstop - Parliament House, 3 March 2020

Trying to use this quote here, though, is problematic in a few ways. Not least of which is that a psyop is neither the only, nor even a reasonable interpretation of what's going on, when taken in context. I can agree that it's theoretically possible, of course, but I'd have to add that such is not even remotely probable unless one accepts a number of quite unreasonable presumptions.

 

[Petra]

"This work by The Economist ...

We should be able to tell there is a pandemic without media and government keeping us informed 24/7. My own personal experience has given me ZERO impression of any dangerous sickness around whatsoever - I hardly know a soul who's tested positive for the alleged covid (one person I know was completely well when she tested positive) let alone been particularly sick and if someone I know has been sick their symptoms didn't sound unlike the symptoms of someone sick with cold or flu. My neighbour didn't believe in covid and then got very sick in a way he'd never experienced before which made him believe in it but then a friend of mine got sick with the flu in 2019 - never had it before and was so sick took herself to hospital. Her colleague's mother died of the flu in 2019 so what's saying my neighbour just didn't have the flu which he'd never had before? He'd also been working extremely hard and perhaps slightly overdoing it with the alcohol - perhaps those things played a role.

One's own personal experience is not necessarily the best way to judge certain things and sometimes should be completely discounted but the nature of a pandemic, I'd say, is that you experience it at personal level to some degree - just one of the various factors which make me believe that covid is a psyop.

If it is a psyop then the figures will be fraudulent - assigning mortality to covid when the cause is something else is probably the most common kind of fraud.

This is MSM in Australia - mainstream commercial radio telling us that the median age of women dying from covid is 86 and that of men 81. MSM!
https://www.facebook.com/TurningPointAustralia/videos/3863750390515887/

 

[EaglePuncher]

I think the definition you put forward is pretty reasonable.

"Military actions" - Yep, though not exclusively military and definitely involve intelligence which is obviously to be expected.

"Designed to influence the perceptions and attitudes of individuals, groups and foreign governments" - Yep, though could specify that the individuals and groups can often be the citizens of the country a government is attempting to influence and sometimes it goes further than perceptions and attitudes to actual behaviour and involves changes of law, etc.

Australia's disgraced Attorney-General, Christian Porter:

"So we're watching this very carefully in anticipation of the fact that for the first time, in Australia, laws will need to be used on a scale that will present a different experience for Australia."

Attorney General, Christian Porter, Doorstop - Parliament House, 3 March 2020

Qui bono?

 

[eerok]

AFAIK no major western leader has objected to the crushing of dissent finally clearing out an illegal occupation of Ottawa in Canada. Tacit approval from all of them.

That is SO cool !!


Warms the heart, dont it, fellers?

Glad you enjoyed it. I sure did. The residents of Ottawa sure did. Most Canadians sure did. The anti-vaxx idiots really overestimated their ability to attain any reasonable goal. Official covid measures are on track to end soon anyway, so what was the point?

 

[eerok]

My own personal experience has given me ZERO impression of any dangerous sickness around whatsoever

My experience is that people who dismiss science on the basis of a silly personal anecdote are not worth taking seriously.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Tories

Statists

Whats the difference between Statists and Tories in the age of universal injections pushed by authorities crushing dissent and suppressing talk of therapeutics such as Vitamin C and D and Zinc, for preventing c19?

I dunno, Bubba. Why don't you tell us - right after you actually show us some of those map alignments that you claimed exist?

Or you could just admit that you're wrong, and that you parroted someone else's utter ******** without understanding it, and then maybe edge closer to an understanding of why no one takes you seriously.