Food coloring... everywhere?

[Z]

I found out today that marshmellows have Blue 1 in them.

Why?

 

[The Observer]

What I really don't understand is how an allergy can induce altered psychological behavior. Am I the only one wondering about that?

We don't even know how ADD works, other then that there are AT LEAST 2 mechanisms on a molecular-neurologic mechanisms identified (don't ask for a refence, old lecture I had...). Neither of which I can link to allergies of any kind.

And what type of allergy are we talking about anyway? Soulds like type 1 based on hapten recognition. Isn't it more likely to see anaphylaxis rather then altered psychological behavior in that case?

 

[ZirconBlue]

The problem so far is finding dyed and undyed versions of the exact same food, to control for the presence of other ingredients... it's pretty challenging.

Buy undyed foods and add coloring to them yourself. You could have a different color of mashed potatoes every night. I'm not sure what varieties of off-the-shelf food coloring are available, though. I know you can buy them in several different forms (liquid, paste, "pure" pigment powders, etc.), but I don't know if you would have access to all of the basic colors used in commercial applications.

 

[Z]

Buy undyed foods and add coloring to them yourself. You could have a different color of mashed potatoes every night. I'm not sure what varieties of off-the-shelf food coloring are available, though. I know you can buy them in several different forms (liquid, paste, "pure" pigment powders, etc.), but I don't know if you would have access to all of the basic colors used in commercial applications.

Actually, that's an excellent idea, Zirc. Thanks!

 

[Z]

What I really don't understand is how an allergy can induce altered psychological behavior. Am I the only one wondering about that?

Nope - lots of researchers wonder about it, too. And it's not, technically, an allergy... it's a sensitivity.

We don't even know how ADD works, other then that there are AT LEAST 2 mechanisms on a molecular-neurologic mechanisms identified (don't ask for a refence, old lecture I had...). Neither of which I can link to allergies of any kind.

It's worse than that... we don't even know how many different and divergent problems have been lumped unceremoniously together under the ADD banner.

And what type of allergy are we talking about anyway? Soulds like type 1 based on hapten recognition. Isn't it more likely to see anaphylaxis rather then altered psychological behavior in that case?

Sounds like you have a little knowledge in-field, but not with ADD, I gather.

I won't even pretend to understand what I've read and been told so far. Only that some of these chemicals interfere with the proper transmissions of signals in the brain. Think about it like alcohol - lack of judgement, reduced moral restraints, etc. Much the same thing.

As an adult sufferer of ADD, I can tell you, it's very much like a constant buzz. Now, I know some people can function just well on the edge of drunk, but imagine being that way ALL the time, with an additional jolt of caffeine thrown in for good measure, and then add in the frustration of knowing that you're expected to act a certain way, restrain yourself, etc... but just can't do it. Have you ever been witness to the aggressive tantrums of children who have communication delays? Out of sheer frustration, they lash out. For the ADD kid, it's a combination of this frustration added to a sheer sense of disconnect to this world. Something in those dyes plays silly buggers with our neurochemistry, and we're left wiped out. It can be really rough sometimes.

All that being said, nothing excuses some of the outlandish behaviour that parents try to blame on ADD from their kids. Even at my son's worst, we expect him to behave a certain way, and we enforce it. We might explain to someone that his inappropriate behavior is influenced by his problem, but we NEVER excuse his behavior. The problem is, a LOT of parents embraced ADD as a convenient tag to keep from having to discipline their child.

It's not like we want to eliminate red food dye (or any other) because it's FUN - My absolute favorite junk food, Flamin' Hot Cheetos, is heavy in food dye. I crave these tasty little bits of nothin, like you wouldn't believe. But I can't have them anymore. I'd love for my kids to get more than chocolate on Hallowe'en and Yule, but they can't have it. It's sheer hell, and it's made worse every time some company decides sales are down and they have to entice buyers with more colorful products.

 

[ungoliant]

how does one test for a sensitivity to these substances? just eat them and observe?

 

[The Observer]

hmmm...

I'm working on a hypersensitivity project right now (new antibody, very interesting, another time maybe...). So aye...

Last year I was working on a project at the Psychopharmacology department. Both as a student, btw. But not without picking up things along the line...

Sensitivity, as a general mechanism would count. I mean, a specific mutation in a receptor might change the affinity of an alien substance significantly. It is possible. That would explain why most people are left unaffected, whilst others (ADD-typed) are severely affected. But this is all theoretical. You see, one has to take in account most people are in fact unaffected...

But I'll dive into it. See what I can find...

 

[Z]

how does one test for a sensitivity to these substances? just eat them and observe?

That's a rough sketch, yeah. Basically, you have to go off of them long enough to 'clear the system', then introduce them in a controlled fashion and observed changes in behavior. Obviously, it takes several runs to get an accurate picture; otherwise, you might tend to mistakenly assume that a behavioral change is associated with the food when it might just as well have another cause.

 

[luchog]

Nope - lots of researchers wonder about it, too. And it's not, technically, an allergy... it's a sensitivity.

It's worse than that... we don't even know how many different and divergent problems have been lumped unceremoniously together under the ADD banner.

Well, the simply answer to that is that ADD/ADHD isn't a purely psychological phenomenon like The Observer implied. It's a neurochemical condition, aka physiological, that results in an inability to focus, as well excessive physical restlessness (including involuntary movements in extreme cases).

The problem is that there are a number of simple psychological and behavioural pseudo-problems that get the same diagnosis. It has been something of a fad for a couple of decades for doctors and parents to label any kid that has an inability or unwillingness to "pay attention" during school as "ADD/ADHD" and give them medication that may or may not "cure" them. There's no physiological problem, they're just being normal children, bored and uninterested in school, exacerbated by the complete inability of their instructors to effectively engage their interest and manage their misbehaviour.

 

[The Observer]

right, so as I can track down for now, one dr. Feingold first came up with the idea to cut down on artificial food colouring agents in hyperactive kids in the 70's. Then, in the 80's this got whole diet thing got a second look and, as it goes, got rejected for lack of proven effectivness. However...

There's a new article from the Danish Bateman (jun 2004, Arch. Dis. Child.) reinstating the idea in a study covering 227 3 year olds. He concluded that there is an effect of food colouring agents, and concluded also there's no role for allergy. He's at a loss for an explaination. I can't find a major problem with his research (though he wrote an erratum I can't open at home). Maybe someone else wants to have a go at him?

That's a rough sketch, yeah. Basically, you have to go off of them long enough to 'clear the system', then introduce them in a controlled fashion and observed changes in behavior. Obviously, it takes several runs to get an accurate picture; otherwise, you might tend to mistakenly assume that a behavioral change is associated with the food when it might just as well have another cause.

zaay, you do understand that this test is not wholely scientific and might be torn apart my skepticists who could compare said effect to that of Placebo?

 

[doubtmaster]

I agree with Rockin' Rick. Why do we have to pollute our garbage dumps with so much plastic junk from product packaging?

 

[Z]

zaay, you do understand that this test is not wholely scientific and might be torn apart my skepticists who could compare said effect to that of Placebo?

I took that into account, as well. For a simple home-based test, this protocol works OK... not perfect, but OK. If we were to run him through exactly as the clinic wants to (at the cost of several months of hospital time), it would be double-blind and placebo-controlled, with several experts on hands at all times.

But, hey, what would Children's Hospital know, right?

 

[Rockin' Rick]

I agree with Rockin' Rick. Why do we have to pollute our garbage dumps with so much plastic junk from product packaging?

We have plenty of landfill space, but why fill it up as fast as possible?

The point was why bother with the additives? I just don't see the neccessity.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Buy undyed foods and add coloring to them yourself. You could have a different color of mashed potatoes every night. I'm not sure what varieties of off-the-shelf food coloring are available, though. I know you can buy them in several different forms (liquid, paste, "pure" pigment powders, etc.), but I don't know if you would have access to all of the basic colors used in commercial applications.

That completely ignores the psychological effect, which is bound to be significant. Why not just feed the dyes to the kids directly?