Food coloring... everywhere?

[Darat]

...snip...

Food is food, folks - and if you had no choice of dyed vs. undyed, you'd buy the undyed food.

....snip...

Yep you would BUT it is the freedom of choice and the fact that people want "orange" oranges that lead the supermarkets (which really control the food growing) to say "give us more orange oranges". They only do this because they find that their consumers will buy more of the orange oranges then they will of less-orange oranges. This is something that us consumers can only blame on ourselves.

And this behaviour is not new - I remember shopping with my grandmother 30 years ago at the local fruit and veg market and she would want the plumpest, reddest looking tomatoes (and perhaps one or two less ripe ones to keep for a few more days).

 

[LW]

I was thinking last night about how stupid the statement, "people won't buy food without artificial coloring" really is. I mean, if the FDA were to ban all food dye tomorrow, does anyone here really think this would cause Americans to stop buying food?

Of course not. But that is moot since the FDA is not going to do it tomorrow so people who prefer buying dyed products will continue to do so.

My own annoyance is not about dyed food (I don't know whether the food we get here is dyed or not) but it is about potatoes. We have here two basic classes of potatoes on sale: the standard that is available year round and the "new yield" potatoes that we get only in Summer. The new potatoes taste better and you don't have to peel them as it is enough to simply wash them.

Now, some ten years or so ago some bright lad got the idea to sell pre-washed new potatoes. Except that they don't do that. They wash the potaoes with a pressure hose and then they roll them around in peat. The result is that the potato looks much nicer than a standard one that is covered in grey soil but it is actually much more difficult to wash those "pre-washed" potatoes than "unwashed".

For some totally incomprehensible reason people actually prefer to buy those cumbersome "washed" potatoes. It has become difficult to find unspoiled new potatoes. I blame urbanization of the society.

 

[Z]

Yep you would BUT it is the freedom of choice and the fact that people want "orange" oranges that lead the supermarkets (which really control the food growing) to say "give us more orange oranges". They only do this because they find that their consumers will buy more of the orange oranges then they will of less-orange oranges. This is something that us consumers can only blame on ourselves.

And this behaviour is not new - I remember shopping with my grandmother 30 years ago at the local fruit and veg market and she would want the plumpest, reddest looking tomatoes (and perhaps one or two less ripe ones to keep for a few more days).

That's true - but the right response isn't to fake it with chemicals, but to tamper with the tomato's genetics, of course!

At any rate, given the carcinogenic effects of these food dyes, I really don't think the best choice is to use fake colors.

 

[Z]

Of course not. But that is moot since the FDA is not going to do it tomorrow so people who prefer buying dyed products will continue to do so.

My own annoyance is not about dyed food (I don't know whether the food we get here is dyed or not) but it is about potatoes. We have here two basic classes of potatoes on sale: the standard that is available year round and the "new yield" potatoes that we get only in Summer. The new potatoes taste better and you don't have to peel them as it is enough to simply wash them.

Now, some ten years or so ago some bright lad got the idea to sell pre-washed new potatoes. Except that they don't do that. They wash the potaoes with a pressure hose and then they roll them around in peat. The result is that the potato looks much nicer than a standard one that is covered in grey soil but it is actually much more difficult to wash those "pre-washed" potatoes than "unwashed".

For some totally incomprehensible reason people actually prefer to buy those cumbersome "washed" potatoes. It has become difficult to find unspoiled new potatoes. I blame urbanization of the society.

Egads!

We can get so many varieties of potato, it boggles the mind... from Russett Reds to the little white ones, to 'New' potatos, to pre-washed, to organic (with the soil still on them), etc.etc.etc.

But since I eat the skins anyway, bring it on!

I'm starting to get afraid to shop anymore... I checked one of our local 'all-organic' grocers, and be damned if their bell peppers weren't sprayed with artificial blue and yellow food dye!

Screw it - I'll just eat all the food coloring, and then blame that when I go 'postal' and terminate the next person to knock at my door.

**knock knock**

"Have you heard the Good New----AAAAAAGGHHHH!!!!"

 

[CurtC]

I would like to put in a plug for one red food coloring/dye that is all-natural: Carmine or Cochineal. It's made from squashed pregnant scale insects, and you can't get much more natural than that.

That's not very comforting to me. Knowing that natural chemicals can be the most poisonous things on Earth, plus I'd be extra suspicious of a brightly (aposematically) colored insect, I'd feel safer with a tested synthetic.

 

[Z]

According to literature provided by Sensient, a major ingredient in the bitter Italian liquor Campari is an exempt dye called carminic acid. This vibrant magenta additive originates from the dried, crushed bodies of pregnant female scale insects called cochineal [Dactylopius coccus costa (Coccus cacti L.)]. Incas and Mayas used these prickly pear parasites for centuries as a dye source, and they were brought into Western markets by Cortez in the 16th century. Today, most cochineal is harvested from managed cactus plantations in Peru and the Canary Islands and is processed in food-grade facilities.

Dried cochineal contains 17 to 24% carminic acid, an anthraquinone that most of the insect's predators find unpalatable. In modern processing methods, carminic acid is extracted from cochineal using an aqueous, alcoholic solution. It can then be used directly as a dye or precipitated on an aluminum hydroxide substrate to make carmine lake.

From http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8134foodcoloring.html

 

[rustypouch]

I know that when I was a kid, red dye really made me crazy. I don't know if it was the mashed bug variety or not, though.

 

[luchog]

They charge more for a LOT of things that have less ingredients... after all, they can label these things 'All natural' or 'Organic' and get away with charging more.

That is why I generally prefer to buy my fruits and veggies from farmer's markets or co-ops (which is really easy to do in my city, there are multiple within walking distance of my apartment); particularly since a lot of stuff I like isn't available through the mainstream supermarkets. Like blood oranges. Never dyed, and taste much better than naval oranges. Just wish I could still get mikans here like I used to (apparently the variety I used to find aren't being exported anymore). The current satsuma crops are far inferior. Not sure if that's different orchards or different grading on the exports; but they're just not as good.

 

[Z]

I know what you mean. I need to get out to our local farmer's market more often... except it's downtown, and I despise the idea of busing (bussing?) veggies and fruits home, and I hate downtown parking.

 

[epepke]

That's not very comforting to me. Knowing that natural chemicals can be the most poisonous things on Earth, plus I'd be extra suspicious of a brightly (aposematically) colored insect, I'd feel safer with a tested synthetic.

Cochineal stain makes really good fake blood, though. Mix it with white Karo syrup. It even dries brown, and the syrup provides a good clotting effect.

WRT oranges, my fiancee's parents own a small orange grove, and just looking at the oranges that they get off the tree, I doubt there's much dying going on. Some of them are ugly, but they get used for juice. I did a field trip to the local Publix and rubbed one of their oranges on my T-shirt for a while. No dye or wax that I could tell came off.

 

[CurtC]

The comments here about red dyes and hyperactivity sound fishy to me. The red dyes banned were banned because they caused cancer in mice. Is there data supporting the link to hyperactivity? The anecdotes of the kind mentioned here are notoriously unreliable.

 

[epepke]

The comments here about red dyes and hyperactivity sound fishy to me. The red dyes banned were banned because they caused cancer in mice. Is there data supporting the link to hyperactivity? The anecdotes of the kind mentioned here are notoriously unreliable.

Well, it's interesting that the OP mentioned caffeine, which really does help hyperactive people (who have paradoxical reactions to stimulants and depressants), but the rest of the thread has been about red dye, which may be a red herring.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Relating pain killers to cosmetic food coloring is really a bad analogy, don't you think? Pain killers relieve pain (duh)... so what, exactly, does adding MORE orange color to oranges do?

It adds to the experience of eating an orange. It's a difference of degree. Sure, most foods are palatable without any alterations. But what if we were to take it to an extreme? What if we were to go the "Bass-O-Matic" route, and put all our food into a blender? Don't you think you'd have difficulty getting your food down, even though from a practical point of view there's no difference? Why are you complaining about the difficulty of getting different varieties of food for your children? What really matters is whether they're getting the necessary nutrients. Anything else is a matter of cosmetics. How can you criticize other people for wanting their food presented in an appetizing manner, while complaining about the difficulty of getting appetizing food for your children?

I honestly think that if all my food were put in a blender and mixed together, my personal quality of life would be more adversely affected than by not being allowed to use any painkillers.

In fact, there have been studies that show that in some situations, the color of a pill has more an effect on its pain relieving abilities than do its ingredients.

TI was thinking last night about how stupid the statement, "people won't buy food without artificial coloring" really is. I mean, if the FDA were to ban all food dye tomorrow, does anyone here really think this would cause Americans to stop buying food? What, would we turn into a pure agricultural society overnight? Or - ha ha - all convert to Breathairianism?

If the FDA were to ban anesthetics, would people stop having operations? Of course not. But it's still a reasonable statement to make that "people won't have operations without anesthetics". Cosmetic alterations to food are hardly a new thing. They're probably older than civilization itself.

It is unfortunate for ZD and his child to need to avoid certain food additive/color. I have always wondered why people are allergic to some substance and frustrated by medical science's seemingly lack of ability to cure the allergy.

Bit of a nitpick, but what we are discussing are not allergies but sensitivities.

 

[Z]

A quick Google search shows a lot about the Feingold Diet, which, aside from food dye and preservatives, suggested removing fruits with lots of salicylates and sugars as well. I think that diet has its problems, but there have been a rare few studies showing links between health issues and food dyes, such as what was done in the study on this page: http://www.chem-tox.com/pregnancy/artificial.htm.

Unfortunately, most supporters of the 'food colors are perfectly safe' camp will refer you to the Food Color Facts pamphlet (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/colorfac.html), which was written not by the FDA, my friends!

'There is considerable evidence that food dyes can worsen the symptoms of ADHD in some children, but government authorities deny the evidence. The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has published a pamphlet called 'Food color facts' which states that "there is no evidence that food color additives cause hyperactivity or learning disabilities in children." The pamphlet, though published by the FDA, was actually written by the International Food Information Council, a trade association representing many makers of food additives including General Mills, Kraft, Procter and Gamble, Pepsi-Cola, Coca Cola, Monsanto (maker of aspartame), and Ajinomoto (maker of monosodium glutamate). To make the statement that there is no evidence that food dyes cause hyperactivity or learning disabilities in children, the FDA had to ignore 16 double-blinded studies that have shown that food dyes do worsen the symptoms of ADHD in some children ...'

- from Rachel's Environment & Health Weekly #678 (with references), Environment Research Foundation, see http://www.rachel.org/

16 double-blind studies isn't much, maybe; but the FACT that the FDA publishes a pamphlet written by an agency that is underwritten by and supports the food industry in general should be considered suspect! What next - Tobacco agencies dictating public smoking policies? Homeopaths writing federal medicinals legislation?

 

[ysabella]

Taking a look...your first link isn't all that conclusive about dyes. They talk about tests on a single boy...a single boy? Does that matter? And when they say "Previous experiments with food dye and behavior in school age children have focused primarily on one type of color at a time" I get all interested, and then they don't go on at all.

The 1993 FDA pamphlet (just linking it again, as you had a stray parenthesis in yours) is clearly labeled as being from the IFIC along with the FDA, to be fair. And it's not linked from the main FDA page regarding food colorants these days. So maybe CSIPI's frowning on that in 1999 made a difference.
Here's the NIH Consensus thing from 1982, in case you're interested.

CSIPI talks about more inconclusive tests circa 2000 - not a lot of new data on this, is there?

It doesn't seem like it helps that many kids, but the cost of testing it on your own kid isn't high. If you can find some oranges that aren't dyed, that is.

 

[El Greco]

The significance of micronutrients and additives is still largely unknown. Many nutrients are beign discovered and examined continuously but we are nowhere near understanding the mechanism of their action or suggesting a daily dose. The same with additives. Some of them have been studied rather extensively (like aspartame) but they are only the minority. The general attitude is that "if it isn't toxic in the short run, then it must be safe". If someone like zaayrdragon wants to reach a practical conclusion on what to avoid and what not, he finds himself amidst cuckoos who suspect everything is a brain control conspiracy, crooks who want to sell coral calcium, industries who support everything is perfectly safe, pseudoskeptics whose only concern is to oppose the doomsayers without always examining the facts and scientists who can't give definite answers yet. The only solution remains personal experimentation, exactly like 30 years ago. Suspicious substances are millions and studies are still few and far between to result in any meaningful guidelines.

 

[Z]

I think El Greco pretty much summed it up nicely.

As it is, it was our own experimentation that proved to us that one of our six kids reacted badly to all artificial colors, a second reacts to the blues (borderline autism spectrum), a third became hostile after consuming beef of any type, and a fourth strongly dislikes anything vaguely sweet, unless it's a dairy item - and gets lethargic and dull after eating it.

Yep. So that's where we stand - desperately learning what foods are going to poison our kids, while 'industry officials' are desperately trying to get legislation passed so they can spray any coloring they want on anything and not tell anyone what they've done. Trying to let our kids have a fair and reasonable variety of foods without going broke shopping at natural food stores, and being constantly battered by modern American idiots who think food has to be plastic-picture-perfect, or funnier still, that Americans won't buy food if it's not pretty - I find this even funnier, in an America that's whining daily about problems of obesity and poor nutrition. Gee, maybe if our industries weren't constantly trying to get us to buy and consume food even when we weren't hungry, maybe we all wouldn't be such lardbottoms? Hell, maybe if we DID ban artificial colorings, we'd be helping the childhood obesity problem?

 

[casebro]

What do ALL artificial colors have in common? Why would anyone have reactions to ALL of them....but somebody else to only the blue ones? Seems like this needs some looking in to...

 

[Z]

What do ALL artificial colors have in common? Why would anyone have reactions to ALL of them....but somebody else to only the blue ones? Seems like this needs some looking in to...

Frankly, IMHO, the agency that recommended we avoid all FD&C and D&C colors, I feel, don't know exactly what those colors are, either. I get the feeling that the key was to avoid certain colors - like yellows, reds, and the Aluminum-lake colors - but not necessarily ALL colors.

It's also possible the agency seems to believe that the seven approved colors are all coal-tar derivatives, when in fact I think only one or two are coal-tar derived.

I DO know (WARNING: ANECDOTE AHEAD) that since we've gone to an almost dye-free diet (he still gets Annatto, Carmine, etc), his behavior has improved, rather drastically. Given that he's been about a year off the food dyes, I'm preparing to introduce dyed foods, one dye at a time, and testing the results. The problem so far is finding dyed and undyed versions of the exact same food, to control for the presence of other ingredients... it's pretty challenging.

 

[Rockin' Rick]

I've heard a few odds and ends about reactions to food colorings. I heard once that carmel coloring agrivates high blood pressure. Then there's all the flavor enhancers and preservatives.

Maybe they're perfectly safe, maybe not. But why use them at all? I understand the desire for a food maker to have their product last, taste good, and look appealing. But, fruits, cough syrup, cereal, water, vitamin tablets? I just don't get it. I bet kids would be more willing to take their medicine if it didn't look like medicine. This is the same reasoning as all the excesive packaging for certain products. Ever open a new child's toy like a Barbie doll? A box in a box, sealed in plastic, taped shut, with the toy stapled in, wire ties, twine, foam and cardboard spacers...the packaging costs more to make and put together than the toy.