Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

[JesseCuster]

I can't find the reference at the moment but Andresson was under contract with his employers Estline to ensure punctuality.

Surprise surprise, another claim you've made that you have no reference for.

Why did you claim that your posts are sourced, cited and properly referenced and that any comment you make that doesn't have an 'IMV' qualifier, is sourced? Nobody believes that, I doubt you even believe that.

 

[JesseCuster]

The Third Reich nazis deliberately and wickedly targetted the Lusitania.

The Nazis sank the Lusitania.

Vladmir Putin was head of the KGB in 1994.

Brian Braidwood famously defused the bomb on the Rainbow Warrior.

It's funny how you snarkily comment on other's supposed lack of historical knowledge when you make such hilarious whoppers.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

No worries, we have apparently reached bizarre o'clock.

You say this as if we weren't already in the Twilight Zone.

 

[Vixen]

Hello again, Vixen.

Glad you're feeling better.

Now, if this:


^source
and this:


^source
are true, how do you explain this:

?

OK, so it was the First World War. Whoops!


Feeling much better, thanks for asking. Notandum. The allergic [over] reaction has abated and apart from an angry red patch on my forehead, which looks remarkably similar to an eczema flare up - but is not quite - and eyes still slightly swollen, my visage is back to normal. Now I understand why TBE vaccinations are pushed here. The nature is beautiful but fierce! (I don't think I was bitten by one of these, though. [Although, who knows])

 

[junkshop]

OK, so it was the First World War. Whoops!...

That's not an explanation. Were your previous posts true? If so, then how do you explain the latter? If not, then do you retract those claims?

 

[Vixen]

Oh, we are back to that subject again.

This is a post from when you brought it up last time, and what the source you pointed to really said:



Note - I've corrected my own quote above, Odell was the minister of "transportation" and nothing else.

However, it is a fact that Carl Bildt ordered all of the ferries to be inspected for bow visor faults.

From Helsingin Sanomat both on 29 Sept 1994

. It has also been suspected that Estonia's bow gate was not properly closed. The Finnish cruise ship Silja Festival was in Tallinn on Tuesday, and the attention of a Finnish cruise guest was drawn to Estonia moving up the visor covering the bow (ramp) gate. On the other hand, the passenger had not seen whether the actual bow gate (ramp) behind the visor was also open. Estonia's bow first has a visor hinged from its corners as the old-time knights to protect their eyes. The visor is not waterproof, but behind it is a real bow gate (ramp) that is lowered and driven into the harbour. In Finland, too, it was sometimes customary to ventilate the car deck by driving the hatches (=bow visor) open.

HS " MARKKU ULANDER / LEHTIKUVA
Ruotsalaiset tarkastivat tiistaina Lasti ei yksin riitä kaatamaan laivaa"

Lehtola says that according to one observation, Estonia would have gone to its side first, while another again thought it sunk stern first. "The latter would a mess up a bit the gate theory of Sillaste, that water could have come through the ramps," Lehtola points out.

Henrik Sillaste, the ship's Estonian machine room man, said on Wednesday that the bow gate of the ferry was not completely closed and before the accident water flowed from the bow gate onto the car deck. Sillaste said he saw this on a surveillance camera monitor in engineering.

HS


In fact, this 'water on the car deck' theory soon took legs and we have this 'expert' here on YLE news 28.9.1994, see circa 18:50, when he rattles on that water on the car deck would be very very dangerous.

Clock, too, Treu giving Sillaste the evil eye in the clip circa 19:31. They both claimed to have climbed out of the funnel. A witness saw a 'short guy and a tall guy' having a punch up as they came out. I wonder whether it was Treu and Sillaste he saw...? Of course, Sillaste claims he didn't leave via the funnel until 0130, whilst somehow managing to retrieve his wallet and passport plus don survivor suit, whilst also handing out life jackets on the deck and 'calming people down' (and even managing to get in the same life raft as Treu, Linde and Kadak!). What a star! The JAIC darling.




(In Finnish)

 

[Vixen]

A Captain's first duty is always to ensure the safety of his ship.
Any matters of punctuality are secondary to this duty

Well IMV it remains to be proven that the Estonia was 'going too fast' because as of the time it sunk, you can calculate that its average speed was 14 - 15 knots.

In addition the actual storm hadn't yet started as of the time it sank. That started up in the early hours.

 

[Vixen]

So your copy of the report is what is printed in a conspiracy book?

The Braidwood and Fellows report, together with the laboratory reports are the book. There's a foreword in Swedish. Some of the laboratory labels are in German.

 

[Vixen]

If, as you claim, the captain was under obligation to disregard the safety of his ship to meet a deadline set by his employer , then yes, the demise of the ship was carefully planned.

Andresson was on the equivalent of US$3,000 pcm, when the median Estonian wage as of the time was just US$178, if a job could be found at all. He attended the Tallinn naval school and then the prestigious Leningrad one. To become captain, i.e., to get his licence, he had to become a member of the Communist Party, although he had never been a member before. Having an Estonian crew was the pride and joy of Estline, as normally they would be Swedish. Thus, I doubt Andresson stepped out of line as you claim. Yes, he had performance targets, i.e., including punctuality and getting the ship out on time and arriving as scheduled but this is a normal part of any captain's duty.

I am not sure Estline and Nordstrom & Thulin, the joint owners also owned the Port of Stockholm, as claimed, as Europa and Mariella were owned by Silja Lines and Viking Lines, and they also had a regular bay.

 

[Vixen]

If, as you claim, the captain was under obligation to disregard the safety of his ship to meet a deadline set by his employer , then yes, the demise of the ship was carefully planned.

What do the Third Reich and the Nazis have to do with the Lusitania?

OK WWI, but let's face it, WWII was just a continuation of WWI.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

"Whoops"?

 

[JayUtah]

The Braidwood and Fellows report, together with the laboratory reports are the book.

Yes, but it hasn't been until now that you identified the book as your source. You don't have the lab reports. You have what some conspiracy author is telling you are the authentic, unabridged lab reports. You concealed the source as long as you could, likely because you realized how problematic it would be for this audience. Deliberately concealing your sources does not convince us of your good faith.

 

[Vixen]

Time travelling torpedoes, launched with military precision. It has the fingerprints of (whoever we're talking about now) all over it. Putin or someone.

If it were me, I'd probably say the doc gave me some whizzo painkillers. (Though joking aside I do hope you're recovered now, Vixen.)

Thanks. Unfortunately, when I got to the health centre, the car park was one massive ice rink. I couldn't move away from my car from slipping and sliding so had to forego the medical expertise and drove off. Just hoping it was not needed.

Anyway, it is interesting you find my date mistake hilarious, but not Jay Utah's utterly ludicrous Lusitania analogy as to what might happen if a ship sails to schedule.

Really?!

 

[abaddon]

That's not an explanation. Were your previous posts true? If so, then how do you explain the latter? If not, then do you retract those claims?

Well you realise that the government agents shot down the airship Titanic in the Pacific in 1965.

Just how absurd are we willing to go?

 

[Vixen]

Surprise surprise, another claim you've made that you have no reference for.

Why did you claim that your posts are sourced, cited and properly referenced and that any comment you make that doesn't have an 'IMV' qualifier, is sourced? Nobody believes that, I doubt you even believe that.

I will find the source.

 

[Vixen]

Mojo asked about the Swedish ministry of information. Its official title is Board of Psychological Defence and you can read more about it here.

In Sweden there was the Board for Psychological Defence (In Swedish: Beredskapsnämnden för psykologiskt försvar, later changed to Styrelsen för psykologiskt försvar) (1954-2008). Sweden is now planning a new authority for psychological defence (in Swedish: Myndigheten för psykologiskt försvar).

The JAIC report is stored here, but nothing that is classified (as the real events surrounding it are) with the official report being utterly unbelievable.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

OK WWI, but let's face it, WWII was just a continuation of WWI.

Only in certain senses, and certainly not in any way that makes your abject ignorance look better.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Well IMV it remains to be proven that the Estonia was 'going too fast' because as of the time it sunk, you can calculate that its average speed was 14 - 15 knots.

In addition the actual storm hadn't yet started as of the time it sank. That started up in the early hours.

Of course the storm had started when it sank.

It was going faster than the other ships at sea in the area and it was not taking weather routing, it was butting directly in to the sea.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Andresson was on the equivalent of US$3,000 pcm, when the median Estonian wage as of the time was just US$178, if a job could be found at all. He attended the Tallinn naval school and then the prestigious Leningrad one. To become captain, i.e., to get his licence, he had to become a member of the Communist Party, although he had never been a member before. Having an Estonian crew was the pride and joy of Estline, as normally they would be Swedish. Thus, I doubt Andresson stepped out of line as you claim. Yes, he had performance targets, i.e., including punctuality and getting the ship out on time and arriving as scheduled but this is a normal part of any captain's duty.

I am not sure Estline and Nordstrom & Thulin, the joint owners also owned the Port of Stockholm, as claimed, as Europa and Mariella were owned by Silja Lines and Viking Lines, and they also had a regular bay.

and yet we know he took no storm precautions on the night the ship sank.

Where is your evidence that there were provisions in his contract that stipulated punctuality targets?

 

[Andy_Ross]

OK WWI, but let's face it, WWII was just a continuation of WWI.

What does that opinion have to do with your mistaking one war for the other?