Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VIII

[HSienzant]

Hey Question

I came across this on another forum

"Oswald had two torn in half one dollar bills in his wallet"

Instead of thrashing about on the internet I thought I'd just check with the experts here.

Is that true and what evil importance do the CTs give it?

Read the thread. Seriously. It was covered about six years ago*. I think you were there for it, in fact.

Here's one time it was brought up (there were several):
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11956223&postcount=1220

Key takeaways:
It's an assumption the paperwork is legitimate. It's unsigned and undated.
It's an assumption this paperwork had anything to do with Oswald.
It's an assumption this was related to spycraft.
_______________

*Four and a half approximately. August of 2017.

 

[HSienzant]

But, did he actually have two torn-in-half bill halves in his wallet? I can't think of a logical reason for that, outside of something unusual.

I'm just asking if this is a rumor, or verified fact.

It's neither. It's BS. It's not verified fact. It's an assumption. The DPD took an inventory of his wallet, and none of the bills torn in half (which come from an undated, unsigned document not bearing any designation it is linked in any way to Oswald) were found in his wallet.

Covered this years ago.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11956223&postcount=1220

My suspicion is some CT was given access to the inventory and surreptitiously inserted that document into the inventory and then awaited its discovery by another CT. Or hell, they didn't even have to do that. They could just claim to have "discovered" it in the inventory. And voila, a new "mystery".

 

[HSienzant]

It's neither. It's BS. It's not verified fact. It's an assumption. The DPD took an inventory of his wallet, and none of the bills torn in half (which come from an undated, unsigned document not bearing any designation it is linked in any way to Oswald) were found in his wallet.

Covered this years ago.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11956223&postcount=1220

My suspicion is some CT was given access to the inventory and surreptitiously inserted that document into the inventory and then awaited its discovery by another CT. Or hell, they didn't even have to do that. They could just claim to have "discovered" it in the inventory. And voila, a new "mystery".

Here's a link to where we covered it in September of 2016. There are probably earlier references to it as well.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11474726&postcount=1305

 

[HSienzant]

Hey Question

I came across this on another forum

"Oswald had two torn in half one dollar bills in his wallet"

Instead of thrashing about on the internet I thought I'd just check with the experts here.

Is that true and what evil importance do the CTs give it?

My previous answer didn't answer the second half of your question although it's implied.

They assume it means Oswald had some intelligence connection.
They assume this means the JFK assassination was a conspiracy.

 

[HSienzant]

When we go on hypotheticals, how about we consider a more serious one.

What if JFK was actually shot by a duck?

What would that imply? That's certainly worth some serious consideration. If ducks aren't harmless unintelligent birds but have capability to perform targeted assassinations. What if some other high-profile assassinations were done by ducks too? Martin Luther King? Trotsky? What are the ducks trying to do?

I'm not claiming that a duck shot JFK, but we really should consider why and how they did it if they actually did it. And how can we prevent them from taking over the world. Just hypothetically, that is.

You really might be onto something there.

That helps explain why, when people suspect something is true but cannot prove it, they say, "Well, if it quacks like a duck..."

Ducks have apparently been arousing suspicion for decades. That saying goes back to the mid-1940s. https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the...bly-is-a-duck-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean

You know what they say, "Where there's smoke, there's probably fire."

And what about those Canada geese? We have them crossing the border at all hours of the day and night, with no check on them whatsoever. They come and go as they please.

And a number of pigeons were seen taking off from the Depository rooftop when the shots were fired.

And the owner of the Depository in 1963 was Col. D. Harold Byrd!

Tell me all that's not suspicious.

I think this is all starting to tie together and demands further investigation. You might really be onto something there.

 

[Axxman300]

In response to Axxman300's comment, I would argue that wanting to murder someone is, by definition, a sign of insanity.

On some level, sure.

His actions don't meet the legal definition on insanity. I'm not sure they'd meet the definition of temporary insanity. He was a guy who couldn't connect to people on an emotional level. This made it easy for him to kill two men and attempt to kill two more. Tippit and the officer he almost shot in the theater were spur-of-the-moment/ self-defense actions. Gen. Walker was methodically planned. JFK was a target of opportunity.

Beyond that, nothing in his life suggested extreme mental illness. At best he might have been high-functioning Aspergers. Maybe bi-polar.

 

[Axxman300]

You really might be onto something there.

That helps explain why, when people suspect something is true but cannot prove it, they say, "Well, if it quacks like a duck..."

Ducks have apparently been arousing suspicion for decades. That saying goes back to the mid-1940s. https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the...bly-is-a-duck-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean

You know what they say, "Where there's smoke, there's probably fire."

And what about those Canada geese? We have them crossing the border at all hours of the day and night, with no check on them whatsoever. They come and go as they please.

And a number of pigeons were seen taking off from the Depository rooftop when the shots were fired.

And the owner of the Depository in 1963 was Col. D. Harold Byrd!

Tell me all that's not suspicious.

I think this is all starting to tie together and demands further investigation. You might really be onto something there.

Oh no, this old canard.

You know what they say, mess with the duck and you get the bill.

A duck would be a quack-shot though...

 

[Pacal]

You really might be onto something there.

That helps explain why, when people suspect something is true but cannot prove it, they say, "Well, if it quacks like a duck..."

Ducks have apparently been arousing suspicion for decades. That saying goes back to the mid-1940s. https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the...bly-is-a-duck-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean

You know what they say, "Where there's smoke, there's probably fire."

And what about those Canada geese? We have them crossing the border at all hours of the day and night, with no check on them whatsoever. They come and go as they please.

And a number of pigeons were seen taking off from the Depository rooftop when the shots were fired.

And the owner of the Depository in 1963 was Col. D. Harold Byrd!

Tell me all that's not suspicious.

I think this is all starting to tie together and demands further investigation. You might really be onto something there.

HSienzant it has been a while, Good to see your back.

Well so the two torn bills has been dealt with before and it appears it is nothing more than complete HS, BS.

Aside from the rather obvious question of even if it was true, without some more context it is functionally meaningless.

So the request to discuss what it could mean is little more than an excuse to speculate and fantasize about an alleged data point that even if it is true probably means nothing in terms of a conspiracy to kill JFK or have anything to do with the assassination of JFK. In other words it is an attempt to create a fictional, fantasy narrative and give that fantasy an alleged basis in a "fact".

It looks to me like an attempt to smuggle in a conspiracy based on a "fact" which isn't a fact and even if it was a fact is basically meaningless without more data.

 

[Axxman300]

I'm kind of slow, but I think I've found proof Oswald was NOT an intelligence asset for anybody, CIA, KGB, or Cuba.

It's in the JFK Assassination Archives: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32108042.pdf

Oswald called Obyrdkov and told him he spoke with Kostikov. He did this on an open line, something anyone with trade-craft training WOULD NEVER DO. An intelligence asset, or operative would know that the phones are bugged. The Soviets obviously knew this as demonstrated by the brevity of the phone call.

So he wasn't working for them.

And later, the CIA figures out that Oswald was a defector to the Soviets who had returned to the US, and they fire off a cable top Langley telling them to alert the FBI that they might have a problem child. That never happened.

If Oswald was CIA the Mexico City Station would have been briefed on him, and would have cleared his activities in the city. They wouldn't have reported that they'd recorded to phone call.

Funny how this works, a huge chunk of operational evidence is right here in the open showing Oswald was not an intelligence asset. His actions, and the actions of the CIA and KGB underline this fact.

 

[Hans]

I'm kind of slow, but I think I've found proof Oswald was NOT an intelligence asset for anybody, CIA, KGB, or Cuba.

It's in the JFK Assassination Archives: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32108042.pdf

Oswald called Obyrdkov and told him he spoke with Kostikov. He did this on an open line, something anyone with trade-craft training WOULD NEVER DO. An intelligence asset, or operative would know that the phones are bugged. The Soviets obviously knew this as demonstrated by the brevity of the phone call.

So he wasn't working for them.

And later, the CIA figures out that Oswald was a defector to the Soviets who had returned to the US, and they fire off a cable top Langley telling them to alert the FBI that they might have a problem child. That never happened.

If Oswald was CIA the Mexico City Station would have been briefed on him, and would have cleared his activities in the city. They wouldn't have reported that they'd recorded to phone call.

Funny how this works, a huge chunk of operational evidence is right here in the open showing Oswald was not an intelligence asset. His actions, and the actions of the CIA and KGB underline this fact.

True but he probably wanted to be.

 

[HSienzant]

Oh no, this old canard.

I see what you did there.

Canard means "duck" in French.

You know what they say, mess with the duck and you get the bill.

A duck would be a quack-shot though...

Loved that! Had me laughing out loud.

 

[HSienzant]

HSienzant it has been a while, Good to see your back.

Truth be told, I never left. But this board, which used to see quite a few posts on a daily basis, slowed down tremendously over the past year. There wasn't a lot I could add as there weren't many critics posting.

Well so the two torn bills has been dealt with before and it appears it is nothing more than complete HS, BS.

I hope you meant "BS, HS", although I've been called worse.

Aside from the rather obvious question of even if it was true, without some more context it is functionally meaningless.

So the request to discuss what it could mean is little more than an excuse to speculate and fantasize about an alleged data point that even if it is true probably means nothing in terms of a conspiracy to kill JFK or have anything to do with the assassination of JFK. In other words it is an attempt to create a fictional, fantasy narrative and give that fantasy an alleged basis in a "fact".

It looks to me like an attempt to smuggle in a conspiracy based on a "fact" which isn't a fact and even if it was a fact is basically meaningless without more data.

Well, to a Commission critic not used to questioning his sources, it's clearly evidence of something or other. But a one-page photocopy of an unsourced document with no date and no author? It reminds me of the "Dear Mr. Hunt" letter that surfaced in the 1970's after Watergate, and was eventually determined to be a Soviet forgery (the misspellings always get them: the letter was signed "Lee Harvy Oswald").

 

[smartcooky]

You really might be onto something there.

That helps explain why, when people suspect something is true but cannot prove it, they say, "Well, if it quacks like a duck..."

Ducks have apparently been arousing suspicion for decades. That saying goes back to the mid-1940s. https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the...bly-is-a-duck-come-from-and-what-does-it-mean

You know what they say, "Where there's smoke, there's probably fire."

And what about those Canada geese? We have them crossing the border at all hours of the day and night, with no check on them whatsoever. They come and go as they please.

And a number of pigeons were seen taking off from the Depository rooftop when the shots were fired.

And the owner of the Depository in 1963 was Col. D. Harold Byrd!

Tell me all that's not suspicious.

I think this is all starting to tie together and demands further investigation. You might really be onto something there.

"Mere ducksoup"
- HC Fisher

 

[smartcooky]

I see what you did there.

Canard means "duck" in French.

Loved that! Had me laughing out loud.

Kinda makes you wonder waddle he think of next!

 

[Axxman300]

Speaking of quacks, assassination gadfly, Cyril Wecht, has yet another book out about the assassination. Big shock, he doesn't think Oswald made either shot, and that two other gunmen did.

https://nypost.com/2022/02/05/jfk-a...utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

Wecht’s latest book, “The JFK Assassination Dissected” (Exposit Books), summarizes his six decades of research into the subject, and pokes holes in the conclusion made by the seven-man Warren Commission that Oswald, without any help, shot and killed Kennedy when his motorcade drove past the Texas School Book Depository in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963.

Yippie.

Oswald “had almost certainly been a CIA agent of some kind,” says Wecht, but the directive to kill may have come from higher up.

Uh, sure.

The first non-governmental forensic pathologist to gain access to the National Archives to examine the assassination materials in 1972, Wecht discovered and exposed the ghastly fact that the 35th president’s brain had vanished.

“As we sit and talk today, the president’s brain remains missing. Unaccounted for,” he said.

Good to know he's kept current on the facts. It's not like the brain was removed from the archives by RFK and reinterred with the body when it was moved to its current resting place...which it was...

Wecht’s book contains never-before published details of his meetings with Oswald’s widow, Marina, who, although unhappily married to Oswald, validated her husband’s claim that he was “just a patsy,” as well as of Wecht’s meeting with George de Mohrenschildt, a shadowy CIA-connected figure who befriended the Oswalds prior to the assassination and, before committing suicide himself in 1977, corroborated Marina’s assessment of Oswald as a fall guy

Might be worth reading if for no other reason than to see how many leading questions he used.

You can read the article if you need comic relief.

 

[HSienzant]

Oh no, this old canard.

You know what they say, mess with the duck and you get the bill.

A duck would be a quack-shot though...

I keep expecting Robert Harris to pop up with,

Did somebody mention 'ducks'?"

See this youtube video that explains why all the passengers ducked at the same time...​

 

[Pacal]

Good to know he's kept current on the facts. It's not like the brain was removed from the archives by RFK and reinterred with the body when it was moved to its current resting place...which it was...

The fact he doesn't know this is enough for me to toss the book into the not worth reading pile.

As for Oswald's wife. Marina's changing attitude about her late husband's involvement would make an interesting study. Initially she was quite convinced Lee had indeed done it. Why?: Because she would hear his tirades against JFK etc. And certainly at the time of the Warren Commission she still thought he had done it. She changed her mind largely it appears from what she "learned" from Conspiracy theorists who basically really bothered her with their theories and "evidence". The late Vincent Bugliosi in his book Reclaiming History, mentions that he interviewed Marina several times, candidly reports she did not like him, and mentions that Marina told him that she accepted the conspiracy narrative based on what others had told her not about anything she knew about her late husband or any of his activities.

 

[Pacal]

I keep expecting Robert Harris to pop up with,

Did somebody mention 'ducks'?"

See this youtube video that explains why all the passengers ducked at the same time...​

Well when it comes to conspiracy loons I expect the same old duck pets not the pets of Nuns.

Yes there is a French pun there.

 

[Allen773]

No JFK assassination conspiracy theory is complete without a reference to George de Mohrenschildt. Definitely a core part of the JFK CT Bingo, along with the CIA, the Mob, and sketchy Cubans.

 

[Hans]

Hey at another forum the following question was asked:

"What if Lee Harvey Oswald never shot? What would have happened during the trial and afterward?"

I suspect they meant that if he had set up nest had his rifle loaded, aimed but not fired - could he be charged with anything?