Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

[Vixen]

Apparently, Vixen is unaware that different ships can travel at different speeds. And knots are what she has in her hair in the morning.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Vixen]

I am sure that the Europa could have been forced through the weather at the same speed as the Estonia if the captain had been as reckless.

How do you know the captain had been reckless? That is surely an assumption...?


The three ships usually arrived together one after the other at Stockholm, so the speed might not have been a factor at all but incidental.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

If I said I had a hard copy, I have a hard copy.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 11

Quite frankly your word means nothing anymore.

 

[zooterkin]

Andresson was not known to be incompetent.

I guess that changed after he managed to sink his ship.

 

[JayUtah]

It is just my opinion that the drastic and precise end to the ship looks like a military style operation.

But since you have no experience in the military, what is that opinion worth?

Did the JAIC make any attempt to ascertain his actions leading up to the disaster?

It was not their role to do so. You don't have any experience in this field either, so what is your suspicion worth?

 

[Mojo]

It was never the JAIC's job to discover the real cause of the accident. All they were tasked with doing was bringing out a plausible report that upheld the ludicrous 'strong wave caused the bow visor to fall off due to a design fault in the bolts'.

No more, no less.


Sweden even set up a Ministry of Information to browbeat its citizens into accepting the findings.

I haven’t been able to find anything about the reasons for Sweden setting up a Ministry of Information (or, indeed, anything about the Ministry itself). Please can you provide a link, or reference, for this?

 

[JayUtah]

If I said I had a hard copy, I have a hard copy.

Yes, you said that. And you failed to address the points I raised in my post, which further supports the suspicion that you are lying. Care to try again?

 

[JesseCuster]

This is puzzling as a fifteen minute delay was hardly the end of the world, albeit it was in Andresson's contract with the shipping line that he had to be on time.

I never make anything up. All of my comments are sourced, unless I state 'IMV'.

You didn't state 'IMV' and you didn't provide a source or a reference.

What's your reference for Andersson's contract saying this?

 

[JesseCuster]

Where did you get a hard copy of the report?

Your camera or software doesn't need to be able to recognize text to photograph it and put it into a PDF.

Too unwieldy.

You ignored my first question. Where did you get a hard copy of the report?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Andresson was not known to be incompetent.

And yet he sailed at full speed in to a storm, failed to get a full report on the ship condition, failed to issue a Pan or Mayday in good time, sailed repeatedly on a ship that was known to be letting water in through the bow and sailed on a ship that was already compromised in it's stability by having the port wing ballast tanks already flooded to try and correct a list caused by bad cargo loading.

 

[GlennB]

Yes, we've seen that particular quote before. I want to see the quoted report in its entirety. Good job finding what you did, though. And if possible I want to see Braidwood's brief to the laboratory.

It's also on Heiwa's CT website, here, which of course, is almost certainly Vixen's source.

 

[Vixen]

A few days ago I was bitten by a critter and now the consequent allergic reaction has caused the swelling to grow bigger and bigger. My forehead now looks like a shiny red balloon. I m not feeling very well so may not be around for a day or two.

 

[Andy_Ross]

It is a fact.

You have seen his contract?

Where does it say he has to keep to a deadline even if it will endanger the ship?

Can you show us his contract?

 

[Andy_Ross]

How do you know the captain had been reckless? That is surely an assumption...?


The three ships usually arrived together one after the other at Stockholm, so the speed might not have been a factor at all but incidental.

He was reckless because he sailed at full speed head on in to a storm while other ships took storm precautions.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I am not an investigator. It is just my opinion that the drastic and precise end to the ship looks like a military style operation.

What is your experience with military operations?

What is your experience with military operations at sea?

Mine is extensive. It is my opinion that it bears no resemblance to any kind of military operation.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If I said I had a hard copy, I have a hard copy.

Can you tell us where you got it so that we can get copies please.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

A few days ago I was bitten by a critter and now the consequent allergic reaction has caused the swelling to grow bigger and bigger. My forehead now looks like a shiny red balloon. I m not feeling very well so may not be around for a day or two.

Ouch, that does sound horrible. Sincerely, I hope you recover ok.

Just don't do a fringe reset when you come back.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

What is your experience with military operations?

What is your experience with military operations at sea?

Mine is extensive. It is my opinion that it bears no resemblance to any kind of military operation.

Doesn't sound like anything I studied in Security Studies or Military History either, but I can't imagine that's really a good comparison compared to actually doing it.

 

[JayUtah]

It's also on Heiwa's CT website, here, which of course, is almost certainly Vixen's source.

Vixen is obviously trying to hide her source.

 

[Steve]

You are quite capable of discerning opinion from fact.

Also quite capable of discerning facts from lies.