Whoopi Goldberg suspended from “The View”…

[Shadowdweller]

Does this sound like someone who thinks he is superior to the Jews, or was he afraid of their superiority?

Hitler on German Superiority:

If we divide mankind into three categories—founders of culture, bearers of culture, and destroyers of culture—the Aryan alone can be considered as representing the first category. It was he who laid the groundwork and erected the walls of every great structure in human culture.

All that we admire in the world to-day, its science, its art, its technical developments and discoveries, are the products of the creative activities of a few peoples, and it may be true that their first beginnings must be attributed to one race. The maintenance of civilization is wholly dependent on such peoples. Should they perish, all that makes this earth beautiful will descend with them into the grave.

The constructive powers of the Aryan and that peculiar ability he has for the building up of a culture are not grounded in his intellectual gifts alone. If that were so they might only be destructive and could never have the ability to organize; for the latter essentially depends on the readiness of the individual to renounce his own personal opinions and interests and to lay both at the service of the human group.

Keeping in mind that Hitler associates Germans with this Aryan fiction. Hitler claims that essentially ALL the successes of humankind are due to these "Aryans". Contrast the Jews:

Since the Jew—for reasons that I shall deal with immediately—never had a civilization of his own, he has always been furnished by others with a basis for his: intellectual work. His intellect has always developed by the use of those cultural achievements which he has found ready-to-hand around him.

The process has never been the reverse.

That is why the Jewish people, despite the intellectual powers with which they are apparently endowed, have not a culture—certainly not a culture of their own. The culture which the Jew enjoys to-day is the product of the work of others and this product is debased in the hands of the Jew.

If the Jews were the only people in the world they would be wallowing in filth and mire and would exploit one another and try to exterminate one another in a bitter struggle, except in so far as their utter lack of the ideal of sacrifice, which shows itself in their cowardly spirit, would prevent this struggle from developing.

So, no, Jews, in his mind, are NOT intellectuals keeping humankind from descending into barbarism. They are parasites who create and produce nothing of value.

 

[a_unique_person]

Hitler was not a sophisticated thinker. He hated Jews because they were a common scapegoat for anything that went wrong. The "scales fell from before my eyes" moment just picked up on common tropes that were already well worn.

 

[shuttlt]

For me, left-right is a meaningless continuum anymore. Statism-individualism and totalitarianism-libertarianism make more sense. Even progressive-conservative makes more sense.

I think you are mistaking the form a particular worldview takes, and it's specific policy proposals in the moment, and the underlying history of those ideas. Take one example, the idea that man is perfectible, and that it is the malign influence of the world that keeps him from attaining grace vs the natural state of man freed from civilization is brutish struggle and that greed, envy, selfishness and violence etc... are parts of our nature. You see those two sides in the French revolution, you see them today.

You have the idea that there is a solution to politics that can be arrived at by reason and is somehow universally "true". Again, you see it in the French Revolution, you see it today.

I think where people go wrong is when the see the left as somehow anti-globalist and anti-corporate. Those may be external features of it at particular times, but it isn't intrinsic to the left. There is nothing about the current union of the woke and global corporations that is anti-left wing. People just have an idea of the left based on a particular set of policies they advocated at a particular time in history.

 

[shuttlt]

Two variables at right angles to each other. The result is four poles, but in a two party system that doesn't work.

The answer is to accept that no pole is a good place to be in. We need some conservatism and some progressivism. We also need some statism and some individualism. IOW, the best place is in the middle. But that's also the worst place because it requires compromise. And if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that compromise is bad!

Who decides where the middle is?

 

[bruto]

In response to another thread about censorship, I dug out my old copy of Maus, and was interested to read that the frontispiece quotation of that book is a quotation from Hitler, "The Jews are undoubtedly a race, but they are not human."

 

[TragicMonkey]

In response to another thread about censorship, I dug out my old copy of Maus, and was interested to read that the frontispiece quotation of that book is a quotation from Hitler, "The Jews are undoubtedly a race, but they are not human."

Trim the quote off at the comma, slap it on that photo of the cat looking nonplussed, and add "WHOOPI IS WORSE THAN HITLER" and we've got a meme destined for virality!

 

[bruto]

Trim the quote off at the comma, slap it on that photo of the cat looking nonplussed, and add "WHOOPI IS WORSE THAN HITLER" and we've got a meme destined for virality!

You lost me there. I just think it pertinent for those who nitpick about what racism is or isn't and why this or that got done, to be reminded that from the point of view of those who did it, the attempt to wipe out the Jews was racist.

 

[TragicMonkey]

You lost me there. I just think it pertinent for those who nitpick about what racism is or isn't and why this or that got done, to be reminded that from the point of view of those who did it, the attempt to wipe out the Jews was racist.

It was a joke. Some think that thinking Jews are not a race is what Whoopi did wrong, and a quote demonstrating that even Hitler disagreed with her...

 

[AmyStrange]

…for two weeks for saying The Holocaust was “not about race”.

My response to a Twitter thread on the topic…

“I was born and raised a Jew, and don’t get the outrage. I don’t see myself as being a separate “race”, and I think biologists in general agree that “race” is a nebulous concept. Seems like much ado about very, very little, with no slight intended by Whoopi.‬”

Thoughts?

My first question would be, can't other races be Jewish or is it only for white folks?

Maybe I'm getting my facts wrong, but wasn't Sammy Davis Jr. Jewish?

ETA: https://www.isjewish.com/sammy_davis_jr/

 

[theprestige]

My first question would be, can't other races be Jewish or is it only for white folks?

Maybe I'm getting my facts wrong, but wasn't Sammy Davis Jr. Jewish?

ETA: https://www.isjewish.com/sammy_davis_jr/

Why do you ask? Because of his skin color? That's American race-reductionism. And ethnic and cultural reductionism. Kamala Harris and Barack Obama both have brown skin, so they must be representative of African-American ethnicity and culture. Even though their heritage and outlook is radically different from that of third-generation descendants of slaves, whose immediate ancestors were denied access to the middle class by segregationist policies like redlining.

But race has never been just about skin color or other obvious phenotypical shibboleths. Even the Nazis were more nuanced than that.

But the point of all that nuance was to enable further segregation. This whole effort to more finely parse "jewishness" as a "race" is counter-productive. Whether you're a Native American or a Nazi Propagandist, the one-drop rule has the same essential purpose: Separate Us from the Other.

The more people try to argue that Goldberg maybe had a point, the more disgusted I get. What's the purpose? Why is this point important?

 

[AmyStrange]

Why do you ask? Because of his skin color? That's American race-reductionism. And ethnic and cultural reductionism. Kamala Harris and Barack Obama both have brown skin, so they must be representative of African-American ethnicity and culture. Even though their heritage and outlook is radically different from that of third-generation descendants of slaves, whose immediate ancestors were denied access to the middle class by segregationist policies like redlining.

But race has never been just about skin color or other obvious phenotypical shibboleths. Even the Nazis were more nuanced than that.

But the point of all that nuance was to enable further segregation. This whole effort to more finely parse "jewishness" as a "race" is counter-productive. Whether you're a Native American or a Nazi Propagandist, the one-drop rule has the same essential purpose: Separate Us from the Other.

The more people try to argue that Goldberg maybe had a point, the more disgusted I get. What's the purpose? Why is this point important?

Seems to me that if you can be converted to Judaism, then it's not about race, and to me, that makes Whoopi right, but of course, you can disagree if you want.

 

[bruto]

Seems to me that if you can be converted to Judaism, then it's not about race, and to me, that makes Whoopi right, but of course, you can disagree if you want.

Unless you imagine race as being like a virus, that would seem a rational idea. Oh, wait...rational? Disqualified out of the gate.

 

[AmyStrange]

Unless you imagine race as being like a virus, that would seem a rational idea. Oh, wait...rational? Disqualified out of the gate.

Ha, ha, ha. Ok, that's funny and thank you.

 

[ahhell]

Why do you ask? Because of his skin color? That's American race-reductionism. And ethnic and cultural reductionism. Kamala Harris and Barack Obama both have brown skin, so they must be representative of African-American ethnicity and culture. Even though their heritage and outlook is radically different from that of third-generation descendants of slaves, whose immediate ancestors were denied access to the middle class by segregationist policies like redlining.

But race has never been just about skin color or other obvious phenotypical shibboleths. Even the Nazis were more nuanced than that.

But the point of all that nuance was to enable further segregation. This whole effort to more finely parse "jewishness" as a "race" is counter-productive. Whether you're a Native American or a Nazi Propagandist, the one-drop rule has the same essential purpose: Separate Us from the Other.

The more people try to argue that Goldberg maybe had a point, the more disgusted I get. What's the purpose? Why is this point important?

Seems to me that if you can be converted to Judaism, then it's not about race, and to me, that makes Whoopi right, but of course, you can disagree if you want.

What prestige said, also, "Jewish" has multiple meanings, A member of a particular religion and a member of a particularly ethnic group. The venn diagrams of those two groups overlaps a lot but not fully. Its a hold over from the iron age when that was generally common. As a member of my tribe, I worship my tribe's gods in the way that my tribe worships them.

 

[dudalb]

What does any of this have to do with anything?

Again we're getting awfully close to the borders of the Right Troll's favorite "Racism can't exist because I don't see race" argument.

Though in this case it's more of a "I don't want to admit a woman of Color can say something really stupid" thing.

 

[theprestige]

Seems to me that if you can be converted to Judaism, then it's not about race, and to me, that makes Whoopi right, but of course, you can disagree if you want.

Reductionist and doctrinaire. There's more than one thing at work here.

Also, I don't disagree that Whoopi is right in some technical sense. I just think that technically correct is often the worst kind of correct, and that the sense in which Whoopi may be right is probably counter-productive.

 

[bruto]

Reductionist and doctrinaire. There's more than one thing at work here.

Also, I don't disagree that Whoopi is right in some technical sense. I just think that technically correct is often the worst kind of correct, and that the sense in which Whoopi may be right is probably counter-productive.

Agreed. In this case, I think it is technically correct in pointing out the falsehood of Nazi racism, but that, in turn, can easily extend to the falsehood of any notion of race, including the fairly obvious and ever-present discrimination against people of color, even those who are majority Caucasian genetically, which I'm sure most, including Goldberg, would consider racist.

 

[Arcade22]

Trim the quote off at the comma, slap it on that photo of the cat looking nonplussed, and add "WHOOPI IS WORSE THAN HITLER" and we've got a meme destined for virality!

I don't know... I think it's possible to point out that someone made an ignorant statement without implying that they are just as bad as someone responsible for genocide and more.

Am I mistaken?

 

[Arcade22]

Seems to me that if you can be converted to Judaism, then it's not about race, and to me, that makes Whoopi right, but of course, you can disagree if you want.

Except that in real world Jews are defined as a people (or race) by those included via religious conversion and those who share common ancestry. It's not very complicated.

Race and racism isn't just about skin color and one drop rules.

 

[a_unique_person]

I think of it being like a Turing test. Can I tell if someone is Jewish from the way they look, or, in the case of the forum, from what they type. The answer is, no, I can't.