The Jan. 6 Investigation

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And yet they tried. There were and are a lot of people somewhat desperate to validate a very false worldview that they've been manipulated into supporting. That also has fallout among the more reasonable, but much less engaged groups where biases and fallacies can be further exploited. "Where there's smoke, there's fire" is not actually true, but the reasoning is frequently superficially persuasive. Going a little further, IIRC, there were rumblings about attempts to screw with the ballots and that being used as further and more legal-sounding justification to add to the mess, which would have been used to sway public sentiment in their direction even more, regardless of how complete the BS was.



I'm not going to disagree that it was a failed strategy in the short run and that Barr abandoned ship for less than honorable reasons (and I'm certainly not impressed with some more recent attempts to rehabilitate the image of that partisan aider and abetter of Republican crime). The whole thing is more than a little reminiscent of Hitler's Putsch, though, including how it spurred on much more legal measures as the Nazi party worked to seize power.


Indeed, and these are my thoughts as well

This was just a shakedown run... if there are no tangible consequences for what these people did (jail-time for the footsoldiers, and jail-time as well as application of the 14th amendment for the politicians and staffers) then they will get it right next time if they are given another chance.
 
But how would that legislation have worked?

Assuming both the house and senate decided to pass such legislation quickly (and Moscow Mitch didn't decide to fillibuster it) to count the actual electoral college vote before Jan20... legislation needs to get signed by the president, and I am pretty sure Trump would veto it. (Congress can override the veto, but with so many anti-democracy republican congress-critters, they might not have had the votes to do so.)

Result: They would be passed the legislated day for counting electoral college votes (so any counting wouldn't be legal), they couldn't pass a law to schedule a new date. Without the votes being counted, Pelosi might end up as acting president by default on Jan20th, but then Trump might declare martial law because "There is a constitutional crisis, and we can't give the presidency to someone who wasn't even a candidate". (Ignoring of course he is the reason for the crisis in the first place)

You are correct. Federal law (3 USC 15) says the counting of votes happens at 1 PM on January 6. This can be changed by Congress by a Public Law approved by both Houses and by the President. That is what has occurred in the past. It is maybe possible to change the date without approval by the President by a joint resolution, but I am not sure on the legalities of that, and I do not think it has ever been tested.

The significant issue is that once the start date is set, that is the start date. If the counting isn't done that day, you don't have to pass anything for a new date. Once the start date starts, that is it. The counting starts then and by law it does not stop until it is done (with some exceptions).

It was already set that the counting start January 6. If there was any interruption, it would necessarily resume without delay until it was done with no need to set a new date.
 
If congress can't decide on a winner and it isn't put back to the states, then on January 20th the Speaker of the house is sworn in President, Pelosi could have outsmarted Trump Just by recessing congress.

Actually, in this circumstance no one can recess Congress. Congress must stay in session until this is settled. But you're right that Pelosi becomes POTUS on January 20th if it isn't.
 
Actually, in this circumstance no one can recess Congress. Congress must stay in session until this is settled. But you're right that Pelosi becomes POTUS on January 20th if it isn't.

Yes Because of Donald John Trump's actions we could have had President Pelosi, that should give Republicans Nightmares.
 
Actually, in this circumstance no one can recess Congress. Congress must stay in session until this is settled. But you're right that Pelosi becomes POTUS on January 20th if it isn't.
Yes Because of Donald John Trump's actions we could have had President Pelosi, that should give Republicans Nightmares.
Unless of course they think they could spin the situation to their own benefit...

"The Democrats are trying to install someone who wasn't even a candidate in the election. We must rise up and take back government!"
 
Assuming both the house and senate decided to pass such legislation quickly (and Moscow Mitch didn't decide to fillibuster it) to count the actual electoral college vote before Jan20... legislation needs to get signed by the president, and I am pretty sure Trump would veto it. (Congress can override the veto, but with so many anti-democracy republican congress-critters, they might not have had the votes to do so.)

Result: They would be passed the legislated day for counting electoral college votes (so any counting wouldn't be legal), they couldn't pass a law to schedule a new date. Without the votes being counted, Pelosi might end up as acting president by default on Jan20th, but then Trump might declare martial law because "There is a constitutional crisis, and we can't give the presidency to someone who wasn't even a candidate". (Ignoring of course he is the reason for the crisis in the first place)
You are correct. Federal law (3 USC 15) says the counting of votes happens at 1 PM on January 6. This can be changed by Congress by a Public Law approved by both Houses and by the President. That is what has occurred in the past. It is maybe possible to change the date without approval by the President by a joint resolution, but I am not sure on the legalities of that, and I do not think it has ever been tested.
There is a lot of stuff that hasn't been tested. Which should make people nervous. There had been a lot of "This should always work so no need to plan contingencies" in the American political system. Once you get passed established law, you might end up in the supreme court, which may make decisions that are... questionable.

It was already set that the counting start January 6. If there was any interruption, it would necessarily resume without delay until it was done with no need to set a new date.
That is likely would happen. But I don't specifically see anything that says "things continue until counting is done, even if they finish another day".

I could imagine Stubby McBonespurs and his team of fine legal minds to immediately launch a court challenge based on the idea that "Law says Jan6/its not done/count is invalid". Even if such case is thrown out of court, it adds even more chaos to an already chaotic time.
 
Unless of course they think they could spin the situation to their own benefit...

"The Democrats are trying to install someone who wasn't even a candidate in the election. We must rise up and take back government!"

I'm not Afraid of a revolution from the right, I would be very afraid of one from the Left that includes Scientists and smart people and be likely to succeed.
The Conspiracy theorists only make good cannon folder for idiots to use.
I have to Copyright that phrase," Cannon Fodder Conservative!"
 
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That is likely would happen. But I don't specifically see anything that says "things continue until counting is done, even if they finish another day".
This is a bit of misunderstanding on my part. There can be minor recesses but after the 5th day even that isn't allowed. See below.

Section 7 (now 3 U.S.C. § 16) states that the joint session cannot be dissolved "until the count of electoral votes shall be completed and the result declared."[55] No recess can be taken "unless a question shall have arisen in regard to counting any such votes, or otherwise under [Title 3, Chapter 1]," in which case either House, acting separately, can recess itself until 10:00 am the next day (Sunday excepted).[55] But if the counting of the electoral votes and the declaration of the result have not been completed before the fifth calendar day after the joint session began, "no further or other recess shall be taken by either House."[55]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_Count_Act
 
That is likely would happen. But I don't specifically see anything that says "things continue until counting is done, even if they finish another day".

I could imagine Stubby McBonespurs and his team of fine legal minds to immediately launch a court challenge based on the idea that "Law says Jan6/its not done/count is invalid". Even if such case is thrown out of court, it adds even more chaos to an already chaotic time.

3 USC 16

Such joint meeting shall not be dissolved until the count of electoral votes shall be completed and the result declared; and no recess shall be taken unless a question shall have arisen in regard to counting any such votes, or otherwise under this subchapter, in which case it shall be competent for either House, acting separately, in the manner hereinbefore provided, to direct a recess of such House not beyond the next calendar day, Sunday excepted, at the hour of 10 o’clock in the forenoon. But if the counting of the electoral votes and the declaration of the result shall not have been completed before the fifth calendar day next after such first meeting of the two Houses, no further or other recess shall be taken by either House.
 
But how would that legislation have worked?



Assuming both the house and senate decided to pass such legislation quickly (and Moscow Mitch didn't decide to fillibuster it) to count the actual electoral college vote before Jan20... legislation needs to get signed by the president, and I am pretty sure Trump would veto it. (Congress can override the veto, but with so many anti-democracy republican congress-critters, they might not have had the votes to do so.)



Result: They would be passed the legislated day for counting electoral college votes (so any counting wouldn't be legal), they couldn't pass a law to schedule a new date. Without the votes being counted, Pelosi might end up as acting president by default on Jan20th, but then Trump might declare martial law because "There is a constitutional crisis, and we can't give the presidency to someone who wasn't even a candidate". (Ignoring of course he is the reason for the crisis in the first place)
They don't care. Then have caused chaos which means Trump can say he didn't lose. That's all he cares about. It's all about him.
 
ANybody who thinks this going to have a peaceful ending is living in la la land.

I see Trump is at it again with his coded message of 'protests':

"If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in Washington DC, in New York, in Atlanta and elsewhere because our country and our elections are corrupt," Trump said during the rally on Saturday night.

"In reality, they're not after me, they're after you, and I just happen to be the person in the way," Trump later added.

"For years, they've been going after my company, many years, using every trick in the book in an attempt to literally–if they can–put me in jail. They want to put me in jail," Trump told his supporters during the Saturday rally. Trump also accused investigators of committing "prosecutorial misconduct at the highest level" and accused them of being vicious, racist and "mentally sick."
"They're going after me without any protection of my rights by the Supreme Court or most other courts," he added.

Projecting there much, Donnie?

He's dog whistling to his people yet again. The man is nuts. He's also telling people exactly what he thinks of the Jan. 6 insurrectionists and promising to pardon them if he's POTUS again in 2024:

"If I run and if I win, we will treat those people from January 6 fairly. We will treat them fairly.

"And if it requires pardons, we will give them pardons. Because they are being treated so unfairly.

"This hasn't happened to all the other atrocities that took place recently. Nothing like this has happened.

"What that unselect committee is doing and what the people are doing that are running those prisons is a disgrace."

IOW: Don't cooperate with the investigation or police and I'll pardon you.

I have disliked a slew of politicians in my life, but never one as much as this POS.
 
Mike Pence' chief of staff has testified before the J6 committee today for several hours according to Rachel Maddow. This is big.
 
Do you have something that says the boxes are stored in the Senate Parliamentarian's Office?

Found it

https://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/transcript-beat-ari-melber-1-28-22-n1288326

"Trump was trying to do a legal coup. He was trying to legally put himself in a position where the government couldn't function. People have to understand how the election actually works, right?

There are physical ballots, there are physical things that have to be filed. And if you think back to January 6, where did the insurrectionists go when they got into the Capitol? Sure, they were looking for Mike Pence. Sure, they were looking for Nancy Pelosi. Where else were they looking?

In the Parliamentarian`s office? They ransacked that office. Why? Because, for some reason, they knew that the Parliamentarian's office is where the actual physical copies of the electoral ballots were being stored.
So what they did in a very real way, was attack the Capitol to get into those ballots, to take possession of those ballots, thus casting doubts on what's called in the law, the provenance of those ballots."​
 
Trump's rhetoric is getting more dangerous than ever.

To me the signal he's getting more dangerous relies on if he has a following that is growing or not.

We have this: Newsmax's audience skyrockets during Trump rallies that other networks, including Fox News, ignore

But what does one compare it to?

"On a normal Saturday night, Newsmax might have 50,000 viewers, but when Trump held a rally two weeks ago, more than 1.5 million found the channel, beating Fox, because Fox ignored the rally," Stelter said.
Compared to Fox's audience when Dump was at his peak, 1.5 million doesn't sound all that high.

And the fact only Newsmax carried the rally says a lot.

And the previous rally:
Newsmax said last week that the network's airing of Trump's Arizona rally on January 15 drew 2.9 million viewers, according to Nielsen data.
So that's a decrease not an increase.


I think the members of Congress who have gone all-in with Dump may have a rude awakening in Nov.
 
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To me the signal he's getting more dangerous relies on if he has a following that is growing or not.

We have this: Newsmax's audience skyrockets during Trump rallies that other networks, including Fox News, ignore

But what does one compare it to?

Compared to Fox's audience when Dump was at his peak, 1.5 million doesn't sound all that high.

And the fact only Newsmax carried the rally says a lot.

And the previous rally: So that's a decrease not an increase.


I think the members of Congress who have gone all-in with Dump may have a rude awakening in Nov.

I certainly hope so, but the one thing that the 2016 election taught me is never underestimate the stupidity of people. What I learned from Trump's administration and what the red controlled states are doing now is that there is practically nothing the current GOP will not do in order to gain control.
 
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