DIY experiment proving graviton is a particle

[W.D.Clinger]

On my end, mathematics and computer science truly are subbranches of science and probably more difficult to achieve than theoretical astrophysics.

Mathematics itself is not an empirical science.

Both computer science and astrophysics encompass substantial empirical science. Astrophysics is considerably more empirical than computer science, I'd say, mainly because a large part of what people refer to as computer science has more in common with engineering than science. Indeed, many of those who think of themselves as computer scientists are paid to do work that has more in common with work done by technicians or engineers than with the kinds of work done by empirical or theoretical scientists. Many universities therefore position their department of computer science within a school of engineering rather than a school of science or arts and sciences.

As for difficulty: Advanced mathematics, theoretical computer science, and astrophysics (both theoretical and empirical) are all so difficult that few people understand all three subjects well enough to compare their difficulty.

Indeed, there aren't a whole lot of people who understand even a single one of those subjects well enough to appreciate its difficulty.

Which goes some distance toward explaining why the above opinions are relevant to this thread.

 

[jadebox]

Okay. Here is what I was getting at. If your phone is resting on a table it'll be subjected to the same acceleration regardless of how it is oriented. It is always being accelerated at 1G away from the center of the earth.

The same is true when you are holding the phone. The acceleration might have a different magnitude and direction because you are moving the phone. But the orientation of the phone won't affect the acceleration. The orientation might affect how the acceleration is displayed by the software, but the acceleration won't change.

So, when you say that you will point your phone at the sun, it confuses us.

 

[philippeb8]

So, when you say that you will point your phone at the sun, it confuses us.

Please forget that statement, I just had this idea of graviton attenuation last week on CQ, came here, I put the cart ahead of the horses, I did the experiment without doing the proper estimates first and vaguely listened to hecd2.

But I learned in 2 days only what I needed to know and I'll scale up the same experiment later on.

 

[hecd2]

All the values are listed in the spreadsheets. The actual standard deviation is the last Z cells which are:
Ground at 8:30 am: 3.7e-6 g
Ground at 8:30 pm: 3.2e-6 g
Sky at 4:20 pm: 8.5e-6 g

Do you know why the noise on z is much less than the noise on x and y (which are much closer to the noise I get from all three axes on my iphone). Are you sure it's working properly? Have you "corrected" the z figures, perhaps?

 

[philippeb8]

Do you know why the noise on z is much less than the noise on x and y (which are much closer to the noise I get from all three axes on my iphone). Are you sure it's working properly? Have you "corrected" the z figures, perhaps?

I did not change the data and I do not know why exactly there is more noise at the horizon. I had the same noise magnitude when I was looking at the Sun rise at Mont Royal.

My iPhone is an iPhone 11 and there are people below me but the noise magnitude still starts at -6 only.

 

[sarge]

Crowdfunding these days helps useless causes as you can see but it doesn't matter because I already am in touch with interested investors and agencies.



Actually I clearly see you will not be part of the solution so I add the fact you are just a troll.

Hey, you pointed to your crowdfunding page as proof of something.

You hope to simultaneously convince the world that mainstream scientists are participating in a grand conspiracy while having those same scientists conduct your incredibly poorly defined ‘experiment’ on the most expensive device ever produced by science…..but sure, I’m the troll.

 

[philippeb8]

Hey, you pointed to your crowdfunding page as proof of something.

You hope to simultaneously convince the world that mainstream scientists are participating in a grand conspiracy while having those same scientists conduct your incredibly poorly defined ‘experiment’ on the most expensive device ever produced by science…..but sure, I’m the troll.

I can neither talk about nor defend my perspective about the mainstream science in this thread. Stop attempting to trap me answering these types of questions here.

I do not need mainstream scientists anyways, I have my own company, investors and partners already.

So you guys can keep on doing whatever you do best with your dark matter, dark energy, wormholes and paradoxes.

 

[sarge]

I can neither talk about nor defend my perspective about the mainstream science in this thread. Stop attempting to trap me answering these types of questions here.

I do not need mainstream scientists anyways, I have my own company, investors and partners already.

So you guys can keep on doing whatever you do best with your dark matter, dark energy, wormholes and paradoxes.

I am not trying to bait you into anything and I believe you misunderstand the moderators instructions to you about what is and is not proper discussion in this thread. We are in science sub-forum. Discussions about mainstream science are fine in this sub-forum and (I believe) in this thread. Discussions about the other forum that you’ve run afoul of would not be appropriate for this sub-forum.

As for needing mainstream scientists…..by your own words, they and their equipment is exactly what you require to conduct your experiments.

 

[philippeb8]

As for needing mainstream scientists…..by your own words, they and their equipment is exactly what you require to conduct your experiments.

I am aware of that and I am already in touch with multiple scientific laboratories and scientists I did already and I will hire.

 

[tusenfem]

Are the variations on the "standard g (~9.8)" that you measure always positive (or can they also be negative)?

No it depends on the orientation of the gravimeter.

No, that is nonsense!

You read of values from your measurements, and they will be greater or smaller than the standard 9.8 or in your case (your iphone apparently uses g=1) the column with Z values are greater and smaller than the average value -0.999647907. That is the NOISE in your data. The fact that it can be positive and negative should be an indication to you that you are NOT measuring any effect of the sun being "shaded" by the Earth, because, why should the differences be positive and negative? Is the Sun pulling and pushing?

Once again, you have no idea of what the techniques you are using are telling you.

 

[philippeb8]

No, that is nonsense!

You read of values from your measurements, and they will be greater or smaller than the standard 9.8 or in your case (your iphone apparently uses g=1) the column with Z values are greater and smaller than the average value -0.999647907. That is the NOISE in your data. The fact that it can be positive and negative should be an indication to you that you are NOT measuring any effect of the sun being "shaded" by the Earth, because, why should the differences be positive and negative? Is the Sun pulling and pushing?

Once again, you have no idea of what the techniques you are using are telling you.

Yeah I know the Sun has no effect on these measurements because the order of magnitude of its tidal force is 2 times lesser than the noise.

The sign just has to do with the g of the Earth and the orientation of the iPhone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roboramma]

I didn't do the experiment yet but just to have an overview:

- Sun's g: G*1.9885e30/(1496e8^2)/9.8 = 6e-4
- Moon's g: G*7.342e22/(384400000^2)/9.8 = 3.38e-6

The iPhone's gravimeter is precise enough to go down to these orders of magnitude. You just need to go in some desert to eliminate any interference.

At midnight the sun is in the direction of your feet. At noon the sun is in the direction of your head. So if you weigh yourself at midnight the sun's gravity is pulling you toward the scale, whereas at noon the sun's gravity is pulling you away from your head.

So, do you weigh more at midnight than at noon? If so, how much?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I am aware of that and I am already in touch with multiple scientific laboratories and scientists I did already and I will hire.

How can you trust them when they are part of the conspiracy?
If they don't produce the results you expect, how do you know they aren't deliberately making the experiment fail?

 

[philippeb8]

At midnight the sun is in the direction of your feet. At noon the sun is in the direction of your head. So if you weigh yourself at midnight the sun's gravity is pulling you toward the scale, whereas at noon the sun's gravity is pulling you away from your head.

So, do you weigh more at midnight than at noon? If so, how much?

If you measure the weight in Newtons then yes you will weight more at midnight by twice the tidal force of the Sun at midnight compared to at noon.

 

[philippeb8]

How can you trust them when they are part of the conspiracy?
If they don't produce the results you expect, how do you know they aren't deliberately making the experiment fail?

Good questions but I will redo the experiment multiple times in multiple independent labs or be there myself in person and if I see a discrepancy then someone's gonna get sued.

I have a history of legal claims and I am in touch with lawyers already.

Regarding the ISS National Lab they seem very cooperative, they are very welcoming and I enjoy working with them.

 

[Steve]

How can you trust them when they are part of the conspiracy?
If they don't produce the results you expect, how do you know they aren't deliberately making the experiment fail?

Consistency is not a strong point with this one. DIY with his iphone appears to involve a cast of thousands with sophisticated scientific equipment (that he plans to hire with the $305 that he has raised). And the evil scientific establishment is only evil when they are not helping him. Not to mention that he has no idea why he has chosen this backwater discussion site as the ideal place to publicize his upending of relativity and astrophysics. Seems more like performance art than legitimate scientific enquiry.

Interestingly, I was just looking at a website about The Firesign Theatre. There are some remarkable performance parallels.

 

[Andy_Ross]

If you measure the weight in Newtons then yes you will weight more at midnight by twice the tidal force of the Sun at midnight compared to at noon.

Why doesn't the Earth mask the gravity from the Sun?

 

[philippeb8]

Why doesn't the Earth mask the gravity from the Sun?

Partially, not fully.

I didn't have time to investigate the theoretical transfer of energy into kinetic energy of the gravitons to the atoms of the Earth because they don't even have an official "E = hf" photon energy like equation for the gravitons. I also asked a gravitonal wave PhD expert in agreement with the gravitons and he doesn't know either.

Once I get the right equipment then it's just a matter of confirming the aforementioned relation.

 

[Steve]

Partially, not fully.

I didn't have time to investigate the theoretical transfer of energy into kinetic energy of the gravitons to the atoms of the Earth because they don't even have an official "E = hf" photon energy like equation for the gravitons. I also asked a gravitonal wave PhD expert in agreement with the gravitons and he doesn't know either.

Once I get the right equipment then it's just a matter of confirming the aforementioned relation.

Porkies are becoming rather droll. "Gravitonal" D) wave PhD experts with access to up to date labs and equipment have no idea how to work out information that our layman correspondent will soon do for them in his basement with his $305 worth of equipment. Note - $305 will not even buy the latest iphone.

 

[tusenfem]

Yeah I know the Sun has no effect on these measurements because the order of magnitude of its tidal force is 2 times lesser than the noise.

The sign just has to do with the g of the Earth and the orientation of the iPhone.

I have no idea what kind of answer this is, but hey, you admit that the Sun has no effect on the measurments. So, your claim about the difference in the standard deviation was not only scientifically/mathematically wrong, but also bogus.