The Jan. 6 Investigation

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Warp12 said:
Maybe you can support these claims with evidence. Otherwise, it sounds like you are speaking in tongues.
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Maybe you should read the Memo from the FBI, and ATF under George Walker Bush in 2003 about the rise in domestic Terrorism connected to white Supremacist in law enforcement.
This war has been going on since Republicans eased requirements for Migration workers to become Residents in the 1980s in order to be Union strike breakers, Scabs that could be hired Cheap.
The Militia Movement was a response to Union construction workers losing their jobs to cheap non Union Migrant Laborers.
But the real,problem was agricultural workers being sponsored by lower priced Contactors who were sponsoring H1a farm workers.
The sponsorships were not originally designed to allow for work outside Agriculture, but an amendment to the bill changed that.
The original Idea was to allow experienced farm hands to stay with Farmers, not to bleed out and take jobs from Americans which is what eventually happened.
So the Militia and Minuteman Movement got a boost from laws passed by Republicans without thinking what would be the ultimate consequences.
That lead to a boost in Many hate groups, and now nothing is off the Table in their battle against those they hate, for them even murder cold Blooded Murder is a viable option for eliminating the opposition.
It's all shown by years of history, which side really wants violence.

Even under Bush Republicans were pushing Guest worker programs that made low educated white construction workers angry. That lead to a growing white Supremacist hate movement.

https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal06-1421213
 
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Crazy Chainsaw said:
Maybe you should read the Memo from the FBI, and ATF under George Walker Bush in 2003 about the rise in domestic Terrorism connected to white Supremacist in law enforcement.
This war has been going on since Republicans eased requirements for Migration workers to become Residents in the 1980s in order to be Union strike breakers, Scabs that could be hired Cheap.
The Militia Movement was a response to Union construction workers losing their jobs to cheap non Union Migrant Laborers.
But the real,problem was agricultural workers being sponsored by lower priced Contactors who were sponsoring H1a farm workers.
The sponsorships were not originally designed to allow for work outside Agriculture, but an amendment to the bill changed that.
The original Idea was to allow experienced farm hands to stay with Farmers, not to bleed out and take jobs from Americans which is what eventually happened.
So the Militia and Minuteman Movement got a boost from laws passed by Republicans without thinking what would be the ultimate consequences.
That lead to a boost in Many hate groups, and now nothing is off the Table in their battle against those they hate, for them even murder cold Blooded Murder is a viable option for eliminating the opposition.
It's all shown by years of history, which side really wants violence.
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Uhh...I was referring to specific claims about my personal beliefs.
 
More, this time from New Republic:
When the United States Senate was called into recess on January 6 [2021] at 2:13 p.m., Senate Parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough stood from her seat behind the dais, adjusted her mask, and looked toward the door where plainclothes policemen were rushing Senator Chuck Grassley to safety. Three mahogany boxes containing the ballots certifying the results of the 2020 election were stacked on a nearby table. To the side, a nervous policeman fidgeted, his hands flitting up toward the gun holstered inside his suit jacket. When the C-SPAN cameras cut away from the scene, those mahogany boxes were still there.

The insurrectionists were already inside the U.S. Capitol. They would soon be on the floor of the Senate. But when they finally entered the chamber and stood behind the dais, the mahogany boxes were gone. It was MacDonough’s staffers who had the presence of mind to get them out of harm’s way. New Republic link
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Still not clear where the boxes were before being brought to the Senate. :(

I guess the bigger question is, what if the rioters had been able to seize and destroy the electoral votes? What happens next? There's probably no procedure for that. Not even the Founding Fathers -- so beloved by those on the right -- ever anticipated something like that happening.
 
newyorkguy said:
More, this time from New Republic:


Still not clear where the boxes were before being brought to the Senate. :(

I guess the bigger question is, what if the rioters had been able to seize and destroy the electoral votes? What happens next? There's probably no procedure for that. Not even the Founding Fathers -- so beloved by those on the right -- ever anticipated something like that happening.
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Well those are not the only copies, are they?
 
newyorkguy said:
More, this time from New Republic:


Still not clear where the boxes were before being brought to the Senate. :(

I guess the bigger question is, what if the rioters had been able to seize and destroy the electoral votes? What happens next? There's probably no procedure for that. Not even the Founding Fathers -- so beloved by those on the right -- ever anticipated something like that happening.
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The Certificates are certified by the states the Senate can get the copy of the certified electoral Votes from the national Archives, the fake ones would not have had the proper signatures from the state officials.
There is no way even the taking of the electoral ballots could have accomplished what the rioters wanted the System has an in built back up, they would have to destroy the state Copy, the copy In the Archives and the copy in the house Chamber for the plan to be effective.
 
Dull wits are happy with dull-witted strategies. Things we don't like are on paper? Grab paper and burn! Men, women say things we don't want? Grab them and wring necks! Then all be good, good. Muh.

I'm obviously overstating the case. Don't you agree?
 
The problem is, the insurrectionists seemed to attach great importance to delaying certification past January 6th. That if the certification was delayed past 01/06 then trump would be able to declare martial law, invalidate the 2020 election and etc.

Realistically, the Senate or the House would have just set a new date. But reality was not the rioters strong suit. ;)
 

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newyorkguy said:
The problem is, the insurrectionists seemed to attach great importance to delaying certification past January 6th. That if the certification was delayed past 01/06 then trump would be able to declare martial law, invalidate the 2020 election and etc.

Realistically, the Senate or the House would have just set a new date. But reality was not the rioters strong suit. ;)
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Not so the Millitary would never have backed a call to Marshall Law, Trump wanted to declare the Insurrection act, not Marshall law, but that required a Scape goat, Antifa or BLM, to blame the violence on, fortunately Jerome Corsi broadcast Trumpsters plan well ahead of January 6th, and counter protesters were told to stay home.
Trumpsters plans were screwed from the start by his own people giving the plan away,
As long as Trump didn't have a Scape goat, he couldn't do anything denying him that Scape Goat was what destroyed Trump's Coup.
Now with his Pardon deal he is once again trying a Scape goat strategy, his old MO, what he doesn’t know is he has now given the Democrats a weapon to use against him in every state to exclude him from the Ballot, by dangling pardons he is giving Aid and Comfort to the enemy and possibly Obstruction of Justice. It is definitely though a violation of the 14th Amendment.
 
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sackett said:
Dull wits are happy with dull-witted strategies. Things we don't like are on paper? Grab paper and burn! Men, women say things we don't want? Grab them and wring necks! Then all be good, good. Muh.

I'm obviously overstating the case. Don't you agree?
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No, I think you summed it up nicely. I would say it's how a Neanderthal would think, but that would be unfair to Neanderthals.
 
abaddon said:
Please tell me you did not do that.

Sigh.

OK, who is Marshall and what is his law?

Do you know?
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Well, now you have gone offline. Likely because you realise you placed a clumsy foot in the kacky, isn't it?

"Marshall Law" my sticky behind. Sounds more like a pervert priest.

The questions remain outstanding...

Who is Marshall and what is his law?

Have you an answer?
 
abaddon said:
Well, now you have gone offline. Likely because you realise you placed a clumsy foot in the kacky, isn't it?

"Marshall Law" my sticky behind. Sounds more like a pervert priest.

The questions remain outstanding...

Who is Marshall and what is his law?

Have you an answer?
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Sorry my spell check Turned martial into Marshall, don't know why robots do that, since spell checks are a crazy bot application.
I was able to paste in from the quote though, and my going off line is because I went to a spot on the farm with bad cell reception because of a hill blocking communication with the cell phone tower.
 
newyorkguy said:
The problem is, the insurrectionists seemed to attach great importance to delaying certification past January 6th. That if the certification was delayed past 01/06 then trump would be able to declare martial law, invalidate the 2020 election and etc.



Realistically, the Senate or the House would have just set a new date. But reality was not the rioters strong suit. ;)
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Not an american legal expert but...

Isn't the January 6th day for counting electoral college votes set out in law? If so, just picking a new date would be... Problematic. Any attempt to unilaterally say "we will count tomorrow/next week" would technically violate the law, and an attempt to quickly change the law would fail because trump probably would veto it.

(Unless there is some provision in the law for alternative dates un the case of emergencies)



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Crazy Chainsaw said:
The Certificates are certified by the states the Senate can get the copy of the certified electoral Votes from the national Archives, the fake ones would not have had the proper signatures from the state officials.
There is no way even the taking of the electoral ballots could have accomplished what the rioters wanted the System has an in built back up, they would have to destroy the state Copy, the copy In the Archives and the copy in the house Chamber for the plan to be effective.
Click to expand...

Wasn't what they "wanted," first and foremost, to create chaos and some "legal sounding" pretext that could be exploited by right wing propagandists to justify their claims that Trump won? Even with the evidence very firmly showing that Biden won and that Trump and the Republicans were (and are) trying to cheat like hell, a majority of Republicans still seem to believe that Trump won and a significant majority think that he probably won. If they had something actually "legitimate" to latch onto instead of a bunch of utterly inane BS like what comprised the Kraken, that would very likely be even worse.
 
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Aridas said:
Wasn't what they "wanted," first and foremost, to create chaos and some "legal sounding" pretext that could be exploited by right wing propagandists to justify their claims that Trump won? Even with the evidence very firmly showing that Biden won and that Trump and the Republicans were (and are) trying to cheat like hell, a majority of Republicans still seem to believe that Trump won and a significant majority think that he probably won. If they had something actually "legitimate" to latch onto instead of a bunch of utterly inane BS like what comprised the Kraken, that would very likely be even worse.
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The chaos from only Trump supporters couldn't be something that Republicans could have latched onto!
It was a failed strategy from the start because it was planned by Trumpsters Incompetent people, that's why Bill Barr abandoned ship, he knew it was a Tanker load of pig Excrement and trinitrotoulene on fire and once it blew everyone was going to be covered in Excrement.
 
Segnosaur said:
Not an american legal expert but...

Isn't the January 6th day for counting electoral college votes set out in law? If so, just picking a new date would be... Problematic. Any attempt to unilaterally say "we will count tomorrow/next week" would technically violate the law, and an attempt to quickly change the law would fail because trump probably would veto it.

(Unless there is some provision in the law for alternative dates un the case of emergencies)



Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
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If no candidate is chosen by January 20th the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi becomes president, not Trump, so delaying the certification was not in Republicans best interests!
Just Imagine Trump's problems if he gave Nancy an excuse to delay until she became President by law.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
If no candidate is chosen by January 20th the Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi becomes president, not Trump, so delaying the certification was not in Republicans best interests!

Just Imagine Trump's problems if he gave Nancy an excuse to delay until she became President by law.
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Unless of course republicans try to say "nobody was picked Jan 6 so between the 6th and 20th we must have the states decide". (Which the supreme court may or may not support)

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If the certification had been delayed past January 6th, a new date could have and would have been selected by legislation. From CBS affiliate in Washington DC, USA (TV):

Do Electoral College votes have to be certified by January 6? What happens next? The date is fixed for January 6 but has been changed before. In order for the date to be changed, lawmakers must pass new legislation...The January 6th date has been set in the Constitution, but the date for the count has been changed several times before. The Congressional Research Service cited the 2013 count when January 6 fell on a Sunday, so the new date was pushed to January 4. Link to WUSA TV
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But I'm sure none of that was known to the MAGA crew and it probably wouldn't have made any difference, anyway.
 

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