The supernatural

[Scorpion]

Heydarian, To hell with Arabic. The argument that a surah like the Quran must be in Arabic is just another piece of standard Muslim propaganda.

PS. what is to stop me writing a surah in English then getting it translated into Arabic?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hello. Maybe. But it only devours the fanatics ... Are you a fanatic? So wait ...

Gibberish.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I also find the idea that god, if he existed, would only communicate in Arabic to be ludicrous.
That is just pure Arabisation of Islam, in much the same way that all Muslim names must be Arab names, "proper" Muslim clothes are Arab clothes, and the prayers are conducted only in Arabic. This is the Arabs establishing ownership of Islam, to ensure religious power, prestige and influence in the world.
(I asked my Turkish students if they spoke any Arabic. None of them did. They went to prayers every day, and didn't understand a single word of it. Ridiculous).
However, in the spirit of the challenge, I hereby present Nizar Qabbani, a modern Syrian poet. Even in translation, his poems are superb- nuanced, complex and emotive. Far better than the blunt threats, vicious sentiments and endless repetition of the Quran and written, to my knowledge, without any claim of divine inspiration.
Enjoy.
https://glli-us.org/2018/02/20/arabian-love-poems-full-arabic-and-english-texts/

 

[Scorpion]

The quranic challenge.

Surah 17.88 Say verily, though mankind and the Jinn should assemble to produce the like of this quran, they could not produce the like thereof though they were the helpers of one another.

Quite apart from the fact that the quran is simplistic and repetitive, and it is plagiarism from other sources. Why does it frequently refer to itself as the quran, when it was not even compiled until well after Muhammad's death?

A book telling you it is a book, when it has not even been written yet!

This is what I mean by reading the quran to analyze the text, and not going all weak in the head and throwing yourself on a prayer mat in case you annoy God.
The quran is full of ignorant, nasty, nonsense, and human literature is filled with far greater writings, from ancient Greece until the present day.


Try reading Homers Iliad or Odyssey, or Plato and Aristotle, or Shakespeare's sonnets, or Byron's Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, or the Pilgrims progress by Bunyan. Or Dante's the Divine Comedy. Or little flowers of St Francis. Or try coming up to date with Zen and the art of Motorcycle maintenance. Or the Tao of Physics by Fritjof Capra. Or The physics of immortality by Frank Tipler.

These are just a few books I grabbed off the shelves of my personal library to make a point.

There is only one thing I find remarkable about the quran, and that is that anyone in this world can possibly still believe it came from God.

 

[Thor 2]

Sura 56 verse 75 - فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ Translate: I swear by the birth of the stars. (White holes in space)

Regarding the above. According to my translator the translation is:

"I do not swear by the locations of the stars." not "I swear by the birth of the stars."


That tosh you are on about: That The Koran can only be understood in Arabic. Makes me wonder why your god would only reveal his word, via Mohamed, to such a small number of people who could understand it. Seems somewhat unfair ..... no?

Scriptures written in different languages and translated, is the bane of religion. A god who was really up to his job would be multi lingual, and write (or have written) in many languages. Or perhaps in a language he invented, that was understood by all.*


*My nephew is married to a lady of Chinese origin. She claimed that Jesus spoke to her in her past, but she could not understand what he said at the time, because she did not know any English then. The drivel that comes from the mouths of the faithful, just knocks me out.

 

[abaddon]

*My nephew is married to a lady of Chinese origin. She claimed that Jesus spoke to her in her past, but she could not understand what he said at the time, because she did not know any English then. The drivel that comes from the mouths of the faithful, just knocks me out.

I...Well I am not sure what to do with that. Or where to even start.

 

[junkshop]

Regarding the above. According to my translator the translation is:

"I do not swear by the locations of the stars." not "I swear by the birth of the stars...

Same here*, and for Heydarian's other translation from the same post:

...Sura 53 verse 1 - وَالنَّجْمِ إِذَا هَوَى Translate: I swear to the star when it is destroyed. (Black holes in space)
...

I get "and the star when he fell".

These translations make Heydarian's interpretations even more tenuous, arguably to the point of being nonsensical, but I'm not sure that this proves anything, other than that translation (especially of poetic writings) is at least as much art as it is science.


*Google Translate, for the record.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Sura 56 verse 75 - فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِمَوَاقِعِ النُّجُومِ Translate: I swear by the birth of the stars. (White holes in space)

I can't believe no one posted that yet.

 

[Myriad]

I get "and the star when he fell".

Temba, his arms wide.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Heydarian, To hell with Arabic. The argument that a surah like the Quran must be in Arabic is just another piece of standard Muslim propaganda.

PS. what is to stop me writing a surah in English then getting it translated into Arabic?

Hello Scorpion. Your knowledge of the Qur'an is very limited And minor.
Please read the next messages.

 

[Pixel42]

However, in the spirit of the challenge, I hereby present Nizar Qabbani, a modern Syrian poet. Even in translation, his poems are superb- nuanced, complex and emotive. Far better than the blunt threats, vicious sentiments and endless repetition of the Quran and written, to my knowledge, without any claim of divine inspiration.
Enjoy.
https://glli-us.org/2018/02/20/arabian-love-poems-full-arabic-and-english-texts/

I like the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

The moving finger writes, and having writ
Moves on. Nor all thy piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line
Nor all thy tears wash out a word of it

I wonder if it's better in the original Persian? It's certainly better than anything in the Qu'ran.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I like this idea, but I think it needs some qualification.
Muslim zealots often claim that the surahs of the Qur'an are such that no-one else could produce anything similar. However, I have never seen any details of exactly what the qualities of these verses are, that are supposedly so great.
If heydarian was able to state what elements of these verses are so impressive, it might help. Is it the use of simile or metaphor? Descriptive language? Use of poetic devices such as alliteration or assonance? Rhythm? The expression of ideas previously unknown and unknowable? What, exactly, is so great about the surahs?
If we knew that, it would add credence to this claim, and also better define the parameters of any attempts to write our own comparable verses.

Hi dear friend
You asked a good question. Obviously you think more realistically. All these parameters that you mentioned are present in the influence of the word of God in the Qur'an. Of course in a great way.
Let me share my thoughts with you and other dear friends on your request for this.
In fact, the elements that affect the verses of the Qur'an are multidimensional. I am not familiar with all its dimensions. I can only tell you from my personal experience what features of the Qur'an appeal to me.
First: The Qur'an has been recited by God. And if we do not believe in God, it has no effect. In particular, the verses of the Qur'an show the speaker's complete mastery of all matters in the universe.
Let me give you an example. If I were to tell you something about the expansion of the universe or the Big Bang. Your impression will definitely be that I am not an expert on this subject. Therefore, my words in this case will not be documented for you. And this is logical. But if I tell you about Hawking with the address of his scientific document. You accept immediately.
The Qur'an is like that. God has said. And every claim he makes is divine. We consider God to have perfect knowledge and wisdom. Because we believe in him because of his signs in the universe. I have already said many reasons for the existence of God in this group.
Second: If one does not believe in the Qur'an, which is the word of God, it will have no effect on a person. The example of my speech can be clearly seen in this group.
If the previous two cases are not a problem for the reader of the Quran. That is, to believe in God and the Qur'an. It will definitely be effective.
Third: The more faith in God and the Qur'an, the more effective it will be. Purity and deep attention to the word of God in the Qur'an enhances the quality of influence. In addition, everyone learns from the Qur'an according to their intellectual and mental capacity. Human capacity varies.
Consider this last article private on my part. This is my personal experience. I have no support. So I just ask God for help. Of course, I mean here in understanding his words in the Qur'an. I refer to the Qur'an whenever I have a question or problem.
When I open the Quran. Like a living and present human being, like a wise master, he stands in front of me and answers. It tells me exactly the answer to my question or the solution to my problem. Sometimes it says things I have not seen or read anywhere! A fire is burning inside me. It is unbelievable. But I get hot in understanding special content. The heat of the Quran burns.
I'm a stubborn person. That's why I do not believe so soon. I completely reject superstition. And I laugh at it. But my inner state is completely different. And I understand that the verses of the Qur'an are influential.
God is closer to us than we imagine. His Romantic song plays for all of us. And he loves us all. He wants us all to go. But we are not on the way. We are unaware. You have to try.
I hope Scorpion and other dear friends read this carefully.
Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

It doesn’t say “black holes in space” or “white holes in space”, though, does it? Those are just phrases you’ve added to the translation.

Incidentally, black holes are not “holes in space”, so the language you are trying to shoehorn into the Quran is another abject failure on your part.

Hello
The terms modern science are not in the Qur'an. Because the Qur'an was revealed in the seventh century. And the people of the seventh century had no knowledge to understand. But God has spoken in His verses with terms that were comprehensible to mankind at that time. Of course, modern science is precisely referred to. This is not difficult to understand. And it's very easy. But unfortunately your veil of prejudice is too thick. It is impossible to understand the Qur'an as long as you have this veil of prejudice. Goodbye

 

[heydarian saeed]

Hello to all
This message is an explanation for my 2590 message.In addition to the important points that I reminded you to say a verse like the Qur'an. Pay attention to this issue as well. Of course, this is more of my personal experience. All the words and even the letters of the verses of the Qur'an are arranged in a certain order.
If a word or letter is moved in a verse. It turns out that this verse is not the Quran. And man has said. It also changes the meaning and interpretation of the verse. It seems that a scientist is completely fluent in the rules of the Arabic language as well as mathematics! He has recited the verses of the Quran. It has a special and precise order.
No one can say that. Note that the Qur'an calls for struggle: Anyone can recite a verse just like me. Come and say. Not to mention like me or a religious subject like the Qur'an. No.
At present, the book of Nahj al-Balaghah by Imam Ali (as) is quite similar to the Qur'an. But it is not exactly like the Qur'an. Personally, when I read it, of course, it is beautiful. But it is not the Qur'an itself. The tone of his speech and the rules of his language are completely different.
While Ali's science is famous. He has been a genius and a brave man. But he can not say like the Qur'an. So do not bore yourself. This scorpion conference is useless.
I love you all. I hope you find my content useful. I have no claim. But I have read the Qur'an more than all of you. And I have understood the Qur'an as much as I can. And I have interpreted.
I have read the Bible at least twice. With its history and interpretation. I am familiar with all its verses. Of course, I never memorize the holy books and the Qur'an. I use my memory to understand more. There are only 5 verses in the Bible in the "Revelation" section. And a few verses in "Genesis". Which refers to modern science. But none of these verses are like the revelation verses of the Qur'an. There are also about 2,500 verses in the Qur'an. Which refers to modern science. I have told you some of these verses. Such as 53/1 and 56/75

 

[heydarian saeed]

Temba, his arms wide.

I'm not familiar with these cultural terms. In my approach, sarcasm is very ugly. There is nothing wrong with describing. Of course, if everyone understands it. I am Iranian, I may not understand your description or irony. Therefore, it would not be polite for you to use these descriptions or allusions. Please speak clearly. Until I understand. Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

heydarian, stop lying.

Make sure I have a good memory. But the liar has a poor memory. I ignore your slander. It does not fit your personality. Note: I said in my initial messages in this group to prove the supernatural. If you have a lab, you can test when the "spirit" enters the fetus. To understand that there is a soul. And I introduced the embryoscope to you and suggested that you use it. And I said I do not have a laboratory. Do this test if you have to. Do you understand? So I did not lie. And in the following messages, I completely ruled out this issue. Do not look for it.
Because the supernatural is not in the realm of our understanding and science. And we should not seek it. Whatever it is, this is the world and it is made of matter. The Qur'an does not speak of the supernatural at all. It speaks only of the material world. With this speech, I also answered all the superstitious religions. And I gave you this great privilege. But unfortunately you did not understand what a great service I did you. The $ 1 million prize of this association reaches my idea. I hope you understand.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Temba, his arms wide.

I'm not familiar with these cultural terms. In my approach, sarcasm is very ugly. There is nothing wrong with describing. Of course, if everyone understands it. I am Iranian, I may not understand your description or irony. Therefore, it would not be polite for you to use these descriptions or allusions.This is my message to all of you. Please do not repeat.
Please speak clearly. Until I understand. Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

I like the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam

The moving finger writes, and having writ
Moves on. Nor all thy piety nor wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a line
Nor all thy tears wash out a word of it

I wonder if it's better in the original Persian? It's certainly better than anything in the Qu'ran.

Hello. The quatrains of "Omar Khayyam" are mystical. And "Shams" has said much richer mystical poems. As well as "Hafiz". I am very glad that you are also a people of taste and mysticism. Please accept my congratulations.
Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

I also find the idea that god, if he existed, would only communicate in Arabic to be ludicrous.
That is just pure Arabisation of Islam, in much the same way that all Muslim names must be Arab names, "proper" Muslim clothes are Arab clothes, and the prayers are conducted only in Arabic. This is the Arabs establishing ownership of Islam, to ensure religious power, prestige and influence in the world.
(I asked my Turkish students if they spoke any Arabic. None of them did. They went to prayers every day, and didn't understand a single word of it. Ridiculous).
However, in the spirit of the challenge, I hereby present Nizar Qabbani, a modern Syrian poet. Even in translation, his poems are superb- nuanced, complex and emotive. Far better than the blunt threats, vicious sentiments and endless repetition of the Quran and written, to my knowledge, without any claim of divine inspiration.
Enjoy.
https://glli-us.org/2018/02/20/arabian-love-poems-full-arabic-and-english-texts/

Hi
I never choose the Arabic language and culture. I do not read any Arabic book except the Quran. I may read translations of other books in different languages. But I read the Quran in Arabic. And it's very enjoyable for me. The Quran is something else. I also read various translations of the Quran. But unfortunately it is incomplete.
Their content is public. Translation of 2,500 verses Revelation of the Quran, which are in the labyrinth of other verses, are translated like the rest. Therefore, it has no special content. Because translators have meant this way for two main reasons. First: they do not have the knowledge and do not make any effort.
And unfortunately, the door to scientific research in the Qur'an is closed. And do not provide adequate support. They still translate according to the science of the seventh century. And are drowning in superstitions. I'm sorry. Second: Quran translators do not want people to learn anything from Quran because of political issues.
And they do not consider it appropriate for people to understand the scientific facts from the very beautiful Qur'anic facts. So I do not accept this approach at all. I have no interest in the politics of Islamic countries. I will not go into details. My approach is: God has said 19 times in the Qur'an, think. And decide later.
he has also said 484 times: Go with knowledge.
And learn any science according to your situation. Therefore, I even believe in God - the Qur'an and the religion of Islam with knowledge. I'm a stubborn person. Especially in work and scientific subjects. I do not believe it at all soon.
God - The Qur'an and the religion of Islam have unfortunately been taught to the people with a multitude of unrealistic superstitions. I have said before that when I entered the university I gave up most of these religious teachings. And I do not believe in that. Whatever is scientific.
And it is true, I accept. I really see the Qur'an as a scientific book. It has content in every field. It is up to us what we are looking for in the Qur'an. I am looking for his knowledge.
And gives me. Of course, as much as my capacity. One is looking for verses of torment. He understands her. I seek knowledge even in the verses of torment. Gave to me. Doom and hell are all based on quantum science. I have told you examples of it.
Thank you for Upload a beautiful site for Qabani Suri poems. I read most of his verses. Really nice. And has referred to a variety of topics.
Politics - brings together mysticism and love. That's a good thing. But ... it is not comparable to the verses of the Quran. Its field is fundamentally different from the Qur'an. Anyway, I love this site and I keep reading it from you. And the verses of Omar Khayyam From the mighty, wise and tasteful pixels
I feel that maybe a new door has opened for new content in our group. I completely agree. I am completely emotional in my personal life.
Let my mind breathe .... from the other side of the water is a voice calling to me ... a boat must be built ... another place must be gone ... A person of taste is there who will tell me: The best thing is to reach an eye that cries with love. I dedicate it to the people of taste, love and mysticism

 

[heydarian saeed]

A red, red rose

O my Luve is like a red, red rose

That’s newly sprung in June;

O my Luve is like the melody

That’s sweetly played in tune.

So fair art thou, my bonnie lass,

So deep in luve am I;

And I will luve thee still, my dear,

Till a’ the seas gang dry.

Till a’ the seas gang dry, my dear,

And the rocks melt wi’ the sun;

I will love thee still, my dear,

While the sands o’ life shall run.

And fare thee weel, my only luve!

And fare thee weel awhile!

And I will come again, my luve,

Though it were ten thousand mile.

“robert burns”