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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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Vixen said:
Doing something classified, or 'in the national interest' is hardly false pretences.
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As we can see from other recipients of the medal, if it was classified then the reason for awarding and the recipient are kept secret.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
I do know how the disinformation that actually exists works. I asked for a very specific thing which you claimed. You've still not provided any examples from the real world.

As for Hill, I do know about him. I know for instance that he never infiltrated Combat 18 and that you were lying about that, as well as lying about Combat 18 being founded by MI5.
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Then you do not have the insider knowledge and I shall not be drawn.
 
"Insider knowledge" of what? Are you claiming to be privy to knowledge withheld from the general public about Hill's activities? Because you're lying again if you are.

ETA: Or maybe you mean on the formation of Combat 18? I know about the formation of Combat 18 Vixen. I know what they are (and what they aren't). Are you claiming to have insider knowledge? Why on earth would you?

Why would the British government trust a nobody management accountant with information that they are apparently withholding from the general public?

You know there are interviews with founders of Combat 18 right? You know they are proud of being right wing racist thugs? They're not MI5 disinformation agents.

Now, are you going to provide examples of the type of disinformation agent that you have claimed exist, or are we going to chalk it up to another of your Walter Mitty fantasies about how you wish the world worked?
 
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Vixen said:
No, this was to recover the bodies before even the day two stage.
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How did they come to that cost without a proper survey?

Do you mean day two after it sank?

How could anyone give a cost for recovering the bodies without viewing the wreck?
 
Vixen said:
Then you do not have the insider knowledge and I shall not be drawn.
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Well. if that is the case, then you are full of it. You have claimed variuosly to be an accountant, a lawyer, a psychologist, a forensic anaylst, and on and on.

At this point, I would be mildly surprised if you claimed to be able to find your own butt with both hands.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
As we can see from other recipients of the medal, if it was classified then the reason for awarding and the recipient are kept secret.
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How do you know in Svensson's case it wasn't kept secret?

JAIC's long flowery description of the Y64/Y74/Y69 rescue is simply to conceal the fact his rescued eight/nine were at an earlier time, and these included the senior crew, retrospectively removed from the survivors list.

From a study of the facts and timeline at hand, that is what seems to have happened.
 

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Vixen said:
This was dealt with at the start. It was a Norwegain specialist company which was in Turku at the time. It offered to do the job at a not-for-profit basis. It would have been circa SEK2m. Swedish government said, no.
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I know. Can you please link to where the engineering analysis was performed and the cost estimation? If the group making the estimate is merely a diving company and not a salvage company, and performed no engineering analysis of the required effort, is there any reason to consider their estimate credible?
 
abaddon said:
Well. if that is the case, then you are full of it. You have claimed variuosly to be an accountant, a lawyer, a psychologist, a forensic anaylst, and on and on.

At this point, I would be mildly surprised if you claimed to be able to find your own butt with both hands.
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Stop telling lies about me.
 
Vixen said:
I'll tell you why: because 'disappeared' is slang, whereas Amnesty International is using official language.
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Yes, they are using precise language. "Disappeared" is slang for the crime of enforced disappearance as defined in various statutes, including the Rome Statute you have variously cited. The crime has a precise definition, which has been explained to you. Can you explain why you think Amnesty International is referring to the crime of enforced disappearance when you concede they are using proper language and they don't mention it?
 
Vixen said:
Just because you use euphemisms doesn't change the fact.
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What are you claiming is a euphemism? The argument is that you are conflating contemporary knowledge of Sweden's actions with identification of their actions as "enforced disappearance," which specifically identifies a crime. Do you understand the difference between knowing what Sweden was doing and describing in specific terms what Sweden was doing?
 
Vixen said:
No, this was to recover the bodies before even the day two stage.
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No. You said this was about raising the vessel. That was the only claim my question was about.

You claimed "it was said" that the ship could have been raised. Please identify who was saying this, and please provide us with their engineering analysis and cost estimations.
 
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Vixen said:
How do you know in Svensson's case it wasn't kept secret?

JAIC's long flowery description of the Y64/Y74/Y69 rescue is simply to conceal the fact his rescued eight/nine were at an earlier time, and these included the senior crew, retrospectively removed from the survivors list.

From a study of the facts and timeline at hand, that is what seems to have happened.
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JAIC took their timeline from the official records.

You have no evidence for any earlier flight. Swedish assistance wasn't even agreed on till almost 2.

You wouldn't know a fact if it walked up and bit you.
 
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