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Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part V

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LondonJohn said:
What the hell has this to do with the "cult of personality".

It is entirely to do with 1) some crackpot deciding that those Egyptians were "disappeared" by Sweden (when in fact Sweden did nothing of the sort), and 2) you finding what this someone had written, and assimilating it into your own crazy theory.

So, once again: who was your source wrt the Egyptians, their "disappearance" (not), and the notion that this serves as some sort of template for Sweden to have "disappeared" the Estonians (not)?

Why will you not answer this question, VIxen?
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Can you remember how you found out Elvis had died? Name and date of the media.
 
Vixen said:
You are incorrect here. The protocol (today and yesterday) is fifteen minutes for the initial helicopter/s.
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No, the standby time when Estonia sank was one hour in both Sweden and Finland.

Repeating your claim will not make it right.
 
LondonJohn said:
So why did you reflexively dispute the notion that Bollyn held disgusting anti-Semitic views..... when you could have found this information for yourself incredibly easily?

Well, Vixen: why? And why do you keep lying about relying on Bollyn as a trusted source re the Egyptians (or, at worst, relying on someone who themselves relies on Bollyn)?
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Investigative journalists often get smeared in order to discredit them for finding out the truth.

Look at scientist Dr David Kelly. Dared to say there were no WMD's.
 
Vixen said:
The Estonian government officials believes the Estonians as originally listed to be 'missing':
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And?

They've had 16 years to investigate this issue. What have they found? They have their own police force and their own intelligence agency, are you telling us that they've found nothing?

Hold that thought.

Funny thing, in 1976, the US Congress created theHouse Select Committee on Assassinations to take another look at the JFK and MLK assassinations. In the end they found nothing conclusive and made some rumors worse.

It gets better...

In 2007, Senator Harry Reid secured funding for an investigation into UFOs.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Squeaky wheels get the grease. Just because a small group thinks something happened doesn't mean it happened. The man went down with the ship. End of story.
 
Vixen said:
Can you remember how you found out Elvis had died? Name and date of the media.
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BBC Radio One news, 16th August 1977 on the day he died.
We were camping in a field at Newton Mulgrave just by the farm on Newton Lane off the Hinderwell to Whitby coast road.
I can’t remember the name of the farm but we had just bought a jug of milk off them from the cooler in the milking barn, fresh from the cow.
 
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Axxman300 said:
You have hitched your horse to a conspiracy theory that says the Estonia was not sunk by accident when the bow visor was knocked off in rough seas, but was sunk either by an act of sabotage, or after a collision with a submarine.

These theories have been advanced by a disgraced German reporter, with help from a marketing wing of a German ship-building company. This new investigation is based on the "discovery" of a rupture in the hull made by a "documentary film maker" on an expedition to "reveal the truth". This film maker is advancing the conspiracy theory, the proof is the footage of the fracture in the hull - he cropped it. He obviously edited out the images of the rocky outcrop from the final piece because it would have been obvious that the rupture was caused by impact with the sea floor.

For some reason you need the MS Estonia to have been sunk as a result of some dark conspiracy involving Bildt, and Clinton, and other western powers. And for some reason you need it badly enough to fill pages on this message board with poorly researched points of view, and very few facts to support them.
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Jutta Rabe is not disgraced at all. She lost her job and was menaced and threatened for daring to investigate. Good journalists tend to be nosey and want to find out what is being kept secret, like Henrik Evertsson, for example, or John Pilger, or Paul Foot. They are not always right but their heart is in the right place.

I thought Baltic Storm was an interesting take, but pure fiction. But then I began to look into this case more, and the more I found out, the more horrified I was to realise that Baltic Storm is actually more a fictitionalised documentary than a fiction film. Horrifying true in essence.

I believe Baltic Storm is banned in Sweden.
 

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Vixen said:
No. The Swedish intelligence forces knew where those downed airmen from 1952 were all along. The were in Swedish waters, just east of Gotland.

No flannel please about gulags and Russian territory.
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But Sweden did not disappear them, which is your claim, remember?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
I'm sorry but what?

That's just all nonsense. Provide evidence of Russian intelligence agencies pretending to support something in order to associate it with extremism. You still seem to think you can vaguely allude to things and be taken seriously. Provide examples.

Secondly not only would the hilighted NOT be an example of what you claimed and what I'm asking you for, but it's not even true! Combat 18 was formed by the BNP in order to provide protection details for it's events from anti0fascist groups.

Where on earth did you get the insane idea that MI5 founded it?
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Also please deal with the above.
 
Vixen said:
Jutta Rabe is not disgraced at all. She lost her job and was menaced and threatened for daring to investigate. Good journalists tend to be nosey and want to find out what is being kept secret, like Henrik Evertsson, for example, or John Pilger, or Paul Foot. They are not always right but their heart is in the right place.

I thought Baltic Storm was an interesting take, but pure fiction. But then I began to look into this case more, and the more I found out, the more horrified I was to realise that Baltic Storm is actually more a fictitionalised documentary than a fiction film. Horrifying true in essence.

I believe Baltic Storm is banned in Sweden.
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Jutta Rabe seems to think that a German news company had one of its reports about the cover up of the Estonia crew being kidnapped seized by ‘security forces’ to suppress it.
She also claims to have seen Swedish flight logs for the helicopter crew that contain the names of the missing crew.

Bonkers.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
But Sweden did not disappear them, which is your claim, remember?
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The families not knowing the fate of their loved ones was a 'disappearing' of them and they had to live with that uncertainty for forty years.

People spend a life time looking for a missing person.

Far kinder to give them closure and just tell them one of their own was killed in action. No massive detail needs to be given.
 
Vixen said:
Jutta Rabe is not disgraced at all. She lost her job and was menaced and threatened for daring to investigate. Good journalists tend to be nosey and want to find out what is being kept secret, like Henrik Evertsson, for example, or John Pilger, or Paul Foot. They are not always right but their heart is in the right place.

I thought Baltic Storm was an interesting take, but pure fiction. But then I began to look into this case more, and the more I found out, the more horrified I was to realise that Baltic Storm is actually more a fictitionalised documentary than a fiction film. Horrifying true in essence.

I believe Baltic Storm is banned in Sweden.
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You believe wrong, as usual.

However the director did ban Swedish journalists from the debut screening.
 
Vixen said:
The families not knowing the fate of their loved ones was a 'disappearing' of them and they had to live with that uncertainty for forty years.

People spend a life time looking for a missing person.

Far kinder to give them closure and just tell them one of their own was killed in action. No massive detail needs to be given.
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No it isn't. Stop attempting to obfuscate what enforced disappearance means.

There is, as you have pointed out yourself, a legal definition of enforced disappearance. Nothing you have mentioned comes close to meeting that definition.

Words have meaning Vixen, no matter how much you wish they could mean whatever you want them to mean.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Jutta Rabe seems to think that a German news company had one of its reports about the cover up of the Estonia crew being kidnapped seized by ‘security forces’ to suppress it.
She also claims to have seen Swedish flight logs for the helicopter crew that contain the names of the missing crew.

Bonkers.
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You forget, she was a high profile journalist privy to insider information.
 
Vixen said:
You forget, she was a high profile journalist privy to insider information.
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So where is her evidence to support the claims?
How do you know she was ‘privy to insider information’?

Do you really think the German government collaborated with Sweden to suppress a story and seize materials relating to the Estonia officers kidnapping?

Do you really think aircrew flight logs list names of people rescued and she had access to these logs on a Swedish air base?
 
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