Cont: Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories Part IV

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Hi Tom Palven!
:w2:

Tom Palven said:
Kit Knightly, a former Guardian investigative reporter

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the bio of Knightly is not available at Wikipedia any longer.
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Do you have evidence that Kit Knightly ever worked for the Guardian or that they had a biography at Wikipedia?
Tom Palven said:
Could it be that the shortages were due to mandatory testing which detected common colds?
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Do you have evidence that mandatory Covid-19 testing detected "common colds?"


Tom Palven said:
It is argued here that the alleged Corona-19 pandemic of Biblical proportions

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... several highly-credentialled statisticians have shown that there have not actually been any "excess deaths' due to Covid-19
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Where are the 5 million people who died from Covid-19?
 
Tom Palven said:
It seems that as with the case of The War on Drugs, discussion of The War on Covid does not consist of a calm and rational cost/benefit analysis of The War.



Instead, it appears that the major media restrict themselves to scare stories and minutiae that amount to questions like "How many Omicron germs can dance on the head of a pin?"

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/
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I see no such "head of a pin" story at the link you provided.

I saw a lot of articles about the reality of the situation, which is legitimately concerning.

Making stuff up out of thin air followed by a link that in no way corroborates your claim is kinda shady.
 
This is how you can tell if someone is genuinely interested in learning, educating themselves, having an honest discussion and trying to arrive at the truth of a matter- or whether they are simply preaching, uninterested in the facts, and only listening to themselves.

Tom Palven said:
Are reports of excess deaths due to covid vaccinations totally bogus?

I truly don't know.
https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/unprecedented-deaths-in-indiana-for
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Cosmic Yak said:
Perhaps if you didn't rely on sources known for their unreliability, you might not keep posting things that are untrue or misrepresented.
The story in your link falls into the latter category.

Here's a source giving a fuller story:


In addition:

https://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/insurance-death-rates-working-age-people-up-40-percent

From another source:


https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2022/0...deaths-past-200-year-event-levels-oneamerica/

So you see, Tom Palven, this is how that story was twisted and distorted to fit a dishonest agenda by your source, Steve Kirsch. Hopefully, you'll use your little holiday to reflect on this.
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Tom Palven has decided not to reflect on the previous example of how he was duped. Instead, we get this:

Tom Palven said:
It seems that as with the case of The War on Drugs, discussion of The War on Covid does not consist of a calm and rational cost/benefit analysis of The War.

Instead, it appears that the major media restrict themselves to scare stories and minutiae that amount to questions like "How many Omicron germs can dance on the head of a pin?"
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/
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At the risk of having another response to one of your posts moved to AAH:
Covid-19 has been isolated and gene-sequenced.
In order for this comparison to be valid, can you please link to the research showing that angels have been identified and gene-sequenced?
Otherwise, I will simply assume that you're being a silly-billy again.
Not just that, but a blind, dishonest silly-billy.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I see no such "head of a pin" story at the link you provided.

I saw a lot of articles about the reality of the situation, which is legitimately concerning.

Making stuff up out of thin air followed by a link that in no way corroborates your claim is kinda shady.
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Tom just likes to repeat phrases like, "how many Omicron germs can dance on the head of a pin?", "panic porn press", and, "orthodox Faucian covidism", because he thinks they sound clever. I get the impression, now, that he's mainly talking to himself - going through the motions of providing an argument, but with low-grade cereal fillers like links to crackpots he hasn't actually read, links to articles that say other than what he thinks they say (probably without reading them, either), logical fallacies, wholesale denial of overwhelming scientific consensus on par with that of young earth creationists and flat earthers, and lies. As long as he keeps his eyes shut, his fingers in his ears, and keeps on talking, he can tell himself that he's kicking everyone else's asses in debate.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
I see no such "head of a pin" story at the link you provided.

I saw a lot of articles about the reality of the situation, which is legitimately concerning.
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To me, "Philippines' Duterte threatens unvaccinated people with arrest" and all the other stories there are like "angels on the head of a pin" stories.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/

It's like when religious scholars allegedly preferred to discuss how many angels could dance on the head of a pin rather than discuss proof for angels, or whether one of them actually hovered over the Virgin Mary causing her to give birth to The Son of God.
 
Tom Palven said:
It's like when religious scholars allegedly preferred to discuss how many angels could dance on the head of a pin rather than discuss proof for angels, or whether one of them actually hovered over the Virgin Mary causing her to give birth to The Son of God.
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How much pointless rhetoric can you pile on the head of a pin? I'm afraid we'll be finding that out.
 
Tom Palven said:
To me, "Philippines' Duterte threatens unvaccinated people with arrest" and all the other stories there are like "angels on the head of a pin" stories.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/

It's like when religious scholars allegedly preferred to discuss how many angels could dance on the head of a pin rather than discuss proof for angels, or whether one of them actually hovered over the Virgin Mary causing her to give birth to The Son of God.
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But as others have said, the Covid virus is not like an imagined angel. People who actually know what they're talking about have actually seen it, sequenced it, tested for it, etc. Discussing what is to be done about a thing that actually exists is not the same as discussing theoretical ideas about things that do not. This is true even if you don't approve of the things recommended, and it is true even if you are right. If you can't see the difference here, what you say will have little relevance.

It is trivially easy to assert that Duarte, a notorious fellow who has done many things that were wrong, is wrong in what he proposes to do about Covid vaccinations. It is absolutely, and completely, a different notion from the suggestion that Covid statistics are wrong, or that vaccinations are not beneficial. And once again, this is the case even if you can (though it's yet to be seen) come up with some other proof that these other allegations are true. And a discussion of what Duarte is doing has little relevance to a discussion of what anyone else in the world is doing.
 
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The fact that you can see Covid through a microscope but not angels does seem relevant.

Also - Duterte actually arresting people in the real world is not in any way analogous to the "angels dancing on the head of a pin" saying, in that all of those people are also real.

Tom Palvern - your analysis sucks. Will you be answering any of the questions posed to you about Kit Knightly, common cold positive covid tests, or the whereabouts of the 5 million who died with Covid-19?
 
Tom Palven said:
To me, "Philippines' Duterte threatens unvaccinated people with arrest" and all the other stories there are like "angels on the head of a pin" stories.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/



It's like when religious scholars allegedly preferred to discuss how many angels could dance on the head of a pin rather than discuss proof for angels, or whether one of them actually hovered over the Virgin Mary causing her to give birth to The Son of God.
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"To you", facts and silly nonsense are alike.

OK, got it.

If there's a specific article you want to discuss (preferably one that actually exists), we could try that?

It would certainly be more useful than searching for Wikipedia articles that never existed about a person who was not a journalist for the Guardian.
 
I often wonder how long Covid CT-ers can dance on the knife-edge of unreality; fed by a constant stream of stupid facebook memes and continually gulled by the dangerous propaganda they consume, and feed others, the answer seems to be indefinitely.

****, cement-heads in the ICU deny the fact that they're dying from Covid while they're dying from Covid. Then, if their families are similarly gulled, they'll ask that the cause of death on the death certificate be anything but Covid.

So yeah, the answer is definitely indefinitely.
 
Tom Palven said:
To me, "Philippines' Duterte threatens unvaccinated people with arrest" and all the other stories there are like "angels on the head of a pin" stories.
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Which tells us you really don't understand the analogy at all. It also further supports my suspicion that your rejection of religion isn't based on rational evaluation of the evidence (or lack thereof), but on a contrarian need to be perceived as different from the majority. That would certainly explain why you keep trying to compare faith without any scientific basis with the existence of a virus supported by a massive scientific consensus.

And Duterte has also advocated the killing of people with drug addictions. Does that in any way alter the reality that drug addiction exists and is a problem?
 
Foster Zygote said:
Which tells us you really don't understand the analogy at all. It also further supports my suspicion that your rejection of religion isn't based on rational evaluation of the evidence (or lack thereof), but on a contrarian need to be perceived as different from the majority.
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You can think what you want to, but I'd rather that you don't make this personal.

The allegedly colossal Covid pandemic, (of less than Biblical proportions, apparently), seems to have a lot in common with religions and other mass movements described by Eric Hoffer 70 years ago.
https://www.amazon.com/True-Believe...4809&sprefix=the+true+believer,aps,643&sr=8-1
 
What would Hoffer make of folk who repeatedly make unsubstantiated claims, double down on those claims, refuse to address any facts which disprove those claims, ignore anyone who has the temerity to stray from those folks' pre-determined "narrative" and the like? Just asking for a friend...

And, no, this hasn't strayed from the UK politics thread, although it would sit equally well there.
 
Tom Palven said:
The allegedly colossal Covid pandemic, (of less than Biblical proportions, apparently), seems to have a lot in common with religions and other mass movements described by Eric Hoffer 70 years ago.
https://www.amazon.com/True-Believe...4809&sprefix=the+true+believer,aps,643&sr=8-1
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Oh yes, I forgot "of Biblical proportions" in your list of repeated phrases that you think sound clever.

I'm guessing you haven't actually read Hoffer's The True Believer. But just for laughs, could you evade showing us in said book, or any of Hoffer's works, where he characterizes the biological sciences as a "mass movement", like a religion, or a political party? Can you name any mass movements like those discussed by Hoffer that are supported by an overwhelming scientific consensus?

You're still struggling to avoid the fact that the reality of COVID-19 is supported by an entire field of science. Ironically, Hoffer's work does a solid job of describing COVID deniers/anti vaccination groups, as well as pretty much every other flavor of conspiracy theorist out there in the world.
 
Excess deaths worldwide

The Economist magazine has been estimating excess deaths since the start of the pandemic. Presently it stands as 18.9 million worldwide, although the error bars are large: from 11.8 million to 22 million. I prefer not to get into a debate about whether or not this is "of biblical proportions," on the basis that I don't know how to interpret that phrase. Moreover, this figure does not encompass all of the harms of this disease.
 
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Tom Palven said:
The allegedly colossal Covid pandemic, (of less than Biblical proportions, apparently), seems to have a lot in common with religions and other mass movements described by Eric Hoffer 70 years ago.
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This will always be my favorite of your miscues: your insistence that accepting science and reason is akin to religious zealotry, and that your fanatic contrarianism is not.
 
eerok said:
This will always be my favorite of your miscues: your insistence that accepting science and reason is akin to religious zealotry, and that your fanatic contrarianism is not.
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What are your own top 10 miscues, pray tell?
 
Tom Palven said:
What are your own top 10 miscues, pray tell?
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I'm curious why you put so much faith in the propagandists, crackpots, and scammers that you keep citing. Is it so hard to believe that the world's experts know what they're talking about when they give their opinions on covid-19? Why do you have to embrace the outliers who have no qualifications, and who in many cases have a self-interest in lying?
 
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