• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part IV

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vixen said:
They were disappeared as per the definition set out in Rome 1998 (Criminal Law Treaty). This was upheld by a court of law and the European Court of Human Rights.


Your calling it an innocent deportation or some other such disgusting euphemism does not cancel out the legal situation.
Click to expand...


No, Vixen. You are wrong. Fundamentally wrong. And the amusing thing is that you can't understand that.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Gotta say, I'm not sure that's too far a leap of hyperbole. Patrick Moore was a supporter of UKIP and chairman of the United Country Party. The United Country Party were pretty far right, particularly on immigration.
Click to expand...

As was Norris McWhirter, and they were friends, but to confuse the two of them is bizarre.
 
Vixen said:
I already gave you my opinion on each of those persons.

I already told you I have no time for 'deniers', antivaxxers or conspiracy theorists. I am only interested in what is true.

Quaere verum
Click to expand...


Your attempt to convey (phony, bogus) erudition through the insertion of Latin phrases is both hilarious and very, very sad. Please keep doing it!
 
Vixen said:
As much as you might despise someone, sometimes they are intellectually correct. For example, Patrick Moore was a notorious far right extremist, but that doesn't cancel out his expertise on astronomy.
Click to expand...


Another hearty chuckle at you confusing (pre-edit) Patrick Moore with Norris McWhirter. Clownish amateurism.
 
Vixen said:
Do look up this wikipedia page.
Click to expand...


Ah good, we're back to the fake-schoolmaster "Do look up...." construction.

You have no authority to command anyone in this thread Vixen. Your sustained ignorance and intellectual dishonesty mean that if anyone needs to be instructed, it's you. It's you, Vixen.
 
Vixen said:
I have seen that report. The fact the bow visor came off does not mean anything until it has been investigated. The question is how would Bildt/Lehtola know before the ship was found and at that stage, Sillaste's story was that he saw the car ramp shut and water coming in at the sides.

It is only later he claims he saw it missing from his life raft. If that was true, he didn't say so at the time. In addition, if the ramp was completely off, how did those two Estonian guys climb down it.

There are a hundred and one possible reasons the visor could have come off before stating it fell off of its own accord.


ibid
Click to expand...


I must say, you've become awfully good at destroying your own thesis by posting contradictory evidence! And you get bonus points for not even realising that this is what you're doing - brava!!
 
Vixen said:
Thanks for the book reference, will look it up. I have never heard anyone calling it 'Hämeen Härkätie', not even Turun Sanomat. You are wrong about what people called it. The Huilu kestikievari was owned by my grandfather's side of the family until into the 20th century. It is in Härkätie
ja on ollut kestikievari todennäköisesti jo keskiajalla... Lisäksi kestikievareita Härkätien varrella mainitaan olleen ... jonkinlainen taverna.
or nowadays just 'kymppitie'.
Click to expand...


That's absolutely fascinating, Vixen. And isn't your family impressive!!!

:rolleyes:
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Gotta say, I'm not sure that's too far a leap of hyperbole. Patrick Moore was a supporter of UKIP and chairman of the United Country Party. The United Country Party were pretty far right, particularly on immigration.
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem any different to most of th Tory party.

Right but not 'extreme'
 
The United Country Party were absorbed into an explicitly white nationalist party.

Patrick Moore was pretty far right. This is something I'd have to say I agree with Vixen on, even if the language used was a touch hyperbolic.
 
Be all of that as it may, it's irrational to say "Person X holds extremist political views, therefore he is not a reliable scientist." But it's not irrational to say, "Person X espouses non-factual positions in science, therefore he is not a reliable scientist." I've cited Sir Patrick for years on matters of space and space engineering. I don't care what his politics are. I don't even know what Björkman's politics are; and similarly I don't care. My opinion of him as a scientist or engineer is based on observing his failed attempt to grasp science and engineering. He is not a reliable expert.

Whether he is reliable as a scholar or reporter cannot escape. Someone who is willing to grossly misrepresent scientific fact in order to attract an audience is not someone I would trust to accurately edit quotes from primary sources or to interpret them defensibly. Editing and interpreting sources requires us to trust the editor. Björkman has easily abrogated that trust.
 
Vixen said:
They were disappeared as per the definition set out in Rome 1998 (Criminal Law Treaty). This was upheld by a court of law and the European Court of Human Rights.
Click to expand...


Then you’ll be able to link to it on HUDOC.
 
Vixen said:
Thanks for the book reference, will look it up. I have never heard anyone calling it 'Hämeen Härkätie', not even Turun Sanomat. You are wrong about what people called it. The Huilu kestikievari was owned by my grandfather's side of the family until into the 20th century. It is in Härkätie
ja on ollut kestikievari todennäköisesti jo keskiajalla... Lisäksi kestikievareita Härkätien varrella mainitaan olleen ... jonkinlainen taverna.
or nowadays just 'kymppitie'.
Click to expand...

I just posted a reference from 1860s that used Hämeentie and not Härkätie. Did you already forget that?

Here are a few more:

"Myytäwänä wähäinen asuntoriwi Liedon pitäjän Loukinaisten kylässä, 10 kilom. Turusta, Hämeentien warrella." - Aura 20.02.1891

"Myydään eli wuokrataan Kyläknaapin 1/2 manttaalin rustitila, kolme peninkulmaa Turusta, Hämeentien warrella lähellä Kyrön asemaa" - Aura 26.09.1889

"Myytäwänä Torppa ulkopuolella Hämeentullia, sisältäwä 3 huonetta, myydään heti. Lähemin paikalla tymies Kari Johanssonilta wastapäätä asfalttitehdasta, ison Hämeentien warrella" - Sanomia Turusta, 30.10.1894

"Suutarin silinteri-ompelukone myydään sattuneesta syystä perin halwalla, torpassa Hämeentien warrella lähellä neulatehdasta" - Sanomia Turusta, 14.3.1895

And you may find the following interesting:

"Hämeentieltä löydettiin Huilun ja Tiensuun wälistä pussi sisältäwä kahwia ja sokeria y.m. pientä tawaraa joulukuun 21 p:nä" - Aura, 15.01.1896

Note how the road going past Huilu is specifically identified as "Hämeentie" and not "Härkätie". That's because "Härkätie" was an obsolete name that was no longer used at the time.

Note to the non-Finnish speakers: all the quotes except the last that I posted are examples where someone advertises something in a newspaper. Meaning that they are using the terms that potential buyers will understand. The last one is an announcement that someone found a bag of stuff on the road. But this all is just distraction from Vixen so that she doesn't need to support her claim that Times had spies among German army.
 
Vixen said:
Er, look up the 1990's - terrorist attacks all over the place.
Click to expand...

Not in Northern Europe, not in 1994. And the biggest target to be attacked up to that point was the World Trade Center in 1993.

The Estonia had issued a MAYDAY, and reported they were taking on water, and listing. They did not report an explosion. There was a 20-minute window for the bridge crew to report any known trouble, and the guy on the radio broadcast his situation.

You are really bad at this.
 
Axxman300 said:
Not in Northern Europe, not in 1994. And the biggest target to be attacked up to that point was the World Trade Center in 1993.

The Estonia had issued a MAYDAY, and reported they were taking on water, and listing. They did not report an explosion. There was a 20-minute window for the bridge crew to report any known trouble, and the guy on the radio broadcast his situation.

You are really bad at this.
Click to expand...

Well, they were part of the conspiracy to sink it don't forget, they wouldn't broadcast that they had blown their own ship up!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom