Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
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- Oct 14, 2009
- Messages
- 23,391
I can't say I understood that but it seemed like you were confirming my inference that you regard any experiment as a test of a theory of everything. I don't see why.
Merged A Thread for AlexPontik to Explain his Ideas
- Thread starter AlexPontik
- Start date
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
Thermal
August Member
Edited by Agatha:
Removed reference to previously moderated material
I get the "reality is going to be there whether or not it was predicted" angle, but I don't get why OP makes it exclusionary, as if it is required that reality be independent of prediction and observation. Seems like an unwarranted leap. We may not get every prediction precisely right (and you can argue that it is impossible to do so), but that doesn't mean reality is different. Just means our models are incomplete.
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Thor 2
Philosopher
You think this nonsense his so profound you have to repeat it?
I am not the one who slumbers.
AlexPontik
Thinker
- Joined
- May 23, 2020
- Messages
- 140
if you can't say that you understand, why do you pretend like you do?
Little 10 Toes
Master Poster
Ah yes, the imprecise definition of words and playing games with them. Let's replace some of them.
When one imagines a 1958 imported left handed pencil created by blind penguins in the Royal Zoo in Johannesburg, South Africa, the migration of the wildebeest is happening around me.
No. I'm in my house, wildebeest free.
See how silly your idea is?
Perhaps you can talk to the attendant on duty to get your money back from the game you're trying to play.
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
False. I can imagine a unicorn. Do unicorns require experiments?
Nope. I can imagine unicorns. Doesn't mean I think they are real, or that any investigation is warranted.
That is not how it works. That is not how anything works. In reality.
Gibberish.
No. All of the above is you not understanding how science works.
Again, not how science works.
You mean the same senses that can point you to a disease or, say, a broken leg? You think those are fun?
Like unicorns. I can imagine them. But they are not real.
Like breaking your leg in reality. That's fun, right?
Sure.
Nope. Medieval people used candles because that was what was available at the time.
So if I imagine that breaking my leg is fun, it becomes fun?
So if I imagine unicorns they become real?
Sure, fear is natural. Do you know why?
And now you have descended into some dubious philosophy.
Baloney. Yesterday, I found my car had a flat tyre. I had to get down and dirty, get out the tools, jacks, wheel braces, etc. It was not fun, I did not imagine it, and it could not be imagined away because reality does not work that way.
No amount of thinking happy thoughts would make that go away.
Turns out to be a side wall perforation, which means a tyre replacement, not a puncture repair. That is an expense I could do without.
I can't imagine those away either. You think that was fun? No, that is reality.
I really don't care what anything seems like to you. I care what is actually true, not what anyone wishes were true.
In earnest, now
This suggests a topic for a separate thread: If you can't use language, how do you prove that you can think?
This suggests a topic for a separate thread: If you can't use language, how do you prove that you can think?
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,094
AlexPontik's posts are copied from a 21 page book he had authored, roughly a year ago, and loaded up onto the internet.
It is incoherent and reminds me of the Timecube website.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GZIqhq1jfJasrsddSzKjBPwP5NVgoE-g/view
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2009
- Messages
- 23,391
I attempted to parse it for meaning but felt sufficiently uncertain that I felt it proper to warn that I was not confident I understood correctly. That seems like the opposite of pretending to understand.
The Common Potato
Muse
My mum used to work with a Brian in VAT.
AlexPontik
Thinker
- Joined
- May 23, 2020
- Messages
- 140
you are attempting to jump into conclusion...
keep imagining stuff...
something else keeps happening around you in reality.
some day even you will get it
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AlexPontik
Thinker
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- May 23, 2020
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- 140
Dave do you really then have to spend time and effort replying to me,
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AlexPontik
Thinker
- Joined
- May 23, 2020
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After you relax from your fantasies, what is the summary you have
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Do your fantasies happen in reality?
Or does something else happen in reality
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AlexPontik
Thinker
- Joined
- May 23, 2020
- Messages
- 140
In the planet with the cheeky monkeys, the cheeky monkeys are trying to find out what seems to be happening...
but what seems to be happening had to happen before the cheeky monkeys happened, and so what seems to be happening is something else than what the cheeky monkeys imagine, and they...
DIDN'T REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, did they really?!
...cause if they think about it, they will really understand.
...really.
but what seems to be happening had to happen before the cheeky monkeys happened, and so what seems to be happening is something else than what the cheeky monkeys imagine, and they...
DIDN'T REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, did they really?!
...cause if they think about it, they will really understand.
...really.
Unless this thread returns to a discernible topic, it will be closed.
Will you all be mindful of your MA, in particular rule 0. rule 11 and rule 12.
Will you all be mindful of your MA, in particular rule 0. rule 11 and rule 12.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Agatha
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through
What I think is fundamentally wrong with Alex's starting point is the trichotomy of experiment, theory and reality. In fact, there is simply a dichotomy, because experiment is a subset of reality. We can therefore divide theories into those which thus far agree with reality, including experimental results, and those that have been shown not to. Alex is simply muddying the waters by pretending that experiments and reality are somehow distinct and unrelated.
Dave
Dave
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AlexPontik
Thinker
- Joined
- May 23, 2020
- Messages
- 140
Hi all,
I am posting the below text to discuss with any of you who wish to do so, for the rest ones, do you really have to spend time and effort replying to me?
Please keep in mind that you will need to read what I wrote more than once, patiently...
...And you need to think before you reply so that we don't have to spend more time and effort than we really do.
...cause do we really have to I ask you?
Text to be discussed
Prologue
When something makes sense, it makes sense to happen again and again in reality.
When something doesn’t make sense, it isn’t worth out time and effort…cause…
…do we REALLY HAVE TO?
Generally explained…
Imagine you do the same thing with the same amount of money twice from its beginning until its end , but one of the times that it takes you more time and effort.
Would you choose again and again to do it when it takes you more time and effort to do it with the same amount of money, doing the same thing?
For example…
Imagine you order take away from the same place many times, and lately it takes longer and longer for the food to arrive, and the food may start getting a bit cold…and it doesn’t seem to be getting better in the future, but the prices don’t change…
…do you start getting a feeling this might be a waste of your time and effort or not?
Or another way said….
What is it that people wasting others’ time and effort not understanding but that exactly?
And what is it that people using money…wasting others’ time and effort not understanding but what money does when money is used sensibly?
And in the end, what is it that people don’t understand , when they hear that they have to not waste others’ time and effort when they are using money, as …
Money has to not increase the time and effort for what it is used to do, when it is used sensibly.
Or yet another way said…
When people trade with one another,
In general they do “I do this for you, you do that for me”,
And specifically whatever “this” and “that” is for the specific occasion and instance, so now…
Player do you know what money does…
Money doesn’t do what those who have money say…
Money reduces the time and effort to trade…
Or we are stuck with idiots wasting our time and effort.
Have you ever really thought of that?
Main text
In Kennyshire and Bennyshire, people are playing with money.
Epilogues - Clarifications
when the economy isn't working for the benefit of the general population, then you have to remember that the economists also say that the economy isn't working.
Why? Because either:
1.The economists are saying that the economy is working, when it is working for the benefit of the general population.
or...
2.The economists are saying that the economy is working, when it isn't working for the benefit of the general population.
but then...
3.I can easily imagine other people who claim that the economy is working, when it it working for the benefit of the general population and are willing to make sense of the economy this way, are followed by the general population (that has happened in economic history, you can search it online...), no?
When most in the economy say
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for most, most care for the way the economy goes…to happen again and again, or if the economy goes another way…
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for most, most don’t care for the way the economy goes…to happen again and again, but if this is the way the economy goes…
If in the end, when most in the economy say that the economy is fun for most, most don’t care for the way the economy goes…to happen again and again, then it doesn’t seem to me that most in the economy really want the way that is fun for most to happen again and again…does it seem to you?
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for few only, whatever way the economy goes, it is a waste of time and effort for most if it happens again and again, and most want to do something else, or if the economy goes another way…
When most in the economy say that the economy if fun for few only, whatever way the economy goes, it is not a waste of time and effort for most if it happens again and again, or most don’t want to do something else, but if this is the way the economy goes…
If in the end, when most in the economy say that the economy if fun for few only, whatever way the economy goes, it is not a waste of time and effort for most if it happens again and again, or most don’t want to do something else, then it doesn’t seem to me that most in the economy really want the way that is fun not only for few but for most to happen again and again…does it seem to you?
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for one only, whatever way the economy goes, most say it has to not happen again, and most want to do something about it, or if the economy goes another way…
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for one only, whatever way the economy goes, most don’t say it has to not happen again, or most don’t want to do something about it, but if this is the way that the economy goes…
If in the end, when most in the economy say that the economy is fun for one only, whatever way the economy goes, most don’t say it has to not happen again, or most don’t want to do something about it, then it doesn’t seem to me that whatever one does isn’t fun for most…does it seem to you?
When few in the economy say
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for most in reality, most in the economy don’t think that money does whatever those who have money want money to do, or if this isn’t the case in the economy….
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for most in reality, most in the economy think that money does whatever those who have money want money to do, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when few in the economy say what money is used to do for most in reality, most in the economy think that money does whatever those who have money want to do, then it doesn’t seem to me what money does in reality has fun consequences for most in the economy…does it seem to you?
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for few in reality, most in the economy don’t want to spend time and effort thinking about that, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for few in reality, most in the economy want to spend time and effort thinking about that, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end when few in the economy say what money is used to do for few in reality, most in the economy want to spend time and effort thinking about that, then it doesn’t seem to me that few aren’t wasting most ones’ time and effort in reality…does it seem to you?
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for one in reality, one can’t think of a fun way to spend less time and effort to do what that one wants to do than what few say, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for one in reality, one can think of a fun way to spend less time and effort to do what that one wants to do than what few say, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when few in the economy say what money is used to do for one in reality, one can think of a fun way to spend less time and effort to do what that one wants to do than what few say, then it doesn’t seem to me that one has to spend time and effort with what few say, if most would think otherwise…does it seem to you?
When one in the economy says
When one in the economy says what one wants to do with money to most, most don’t care about what one says, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to most, most care about what one says, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to most, most care about what one says, then it doesn’t seem to me that one is wasting time and effort for most…does it seem to you?
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to few ones, most can tell if that one can do what that one says, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to few ones, most can’t tell if that one can do what that one says, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to few ones, most can’t tell if that one can do what that one says, then it doesn’t seem to me that one isn’t wasting time and effort for few at least…does it seem to you?
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to another one, that particular story and its consequences in reality don’t change later, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to another one, that particular story and its consequences in reality change later, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to another one, that particular story and its consequences in reality change later, then it doesn’t seems to me that one isn’t a waste of time and effort for another one for this particular story in reality…does it seem to you?
When no one in the economy has to say
When no one in the economy has to say what money does for everyone in reality, money reduces time and effort spend to trade in reality for everyone, or when that doesn’t happen in reality…
When no one in the economy has to say what money does for everyone in reality, money doesn’t reduce the time and effort spend to trade in reality for everyone, but if that does happen in reality…
If in the end, when no one in the economy has to say what money does for everyone in reality, money doesn’t reduce the time and effort spend to trade in reality for everyone, then it doesn’t seem to me that using money while trading isn’t a waste of time and effort for everyone…does it seem to you?
Some of you say that money is the store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account online (Wikipedia)…
Tell that to your girlfriend/spouse/mother in law after you give her money, and the way that you do it increases the time and effort she has to spend to have fun,
Is what I say to you, and also…
You think you are funny?
Nah, you ain’t funny yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTAyNkwrPys
In the end, what’s the summary?
Nature is a lady…
Whatever we do with money, the way we do it has to not ignore the time and effort that we have to spend to do it, otherwise…
Whatever we do with money, the way we do it may ignore the time and effort that we have to spend to do it, but in this case…
If in the end, whatever we do with money, the way we do it may ignore the time and effort that we have to spend to do it, then it doesn’t seem to me that if we want to do whatever we do with money, again…and again…and…again…that we can continue to ignore the time and effort we have to spend to do it, and continue to really have fun, does it seem to you?
Justice is blind, and…
After girls, someplace sometime, have ended talking to one another and have together decided, they point out the ones who are not fun, and the rest show them how…
…MAMA in the end puts order.
I am posting the below text to discuss with any of you who wish to do so, for the rest ones, do you really have to spend time and effort replying to me?
Please keep in mind that you will need to read what I wrote more than once, patiently...
...And you need to think before you reply so that we don't have to spend more time and effort than we really do.
...cause do we really have to I ask you?
Text to be discussed
Prologue
When something makes sense, it makes sense to happen again and again in reality.
When something doesn’t make sense, it isn’t worth out time and effort…cause…
…do we REALLY HAVE TO?
Generally explained…
Imagine you do the same thing with the same amount of money twice from its beginning until its end , but one of the times that it takes you more time and effort.
Would you choose again and again to do it when it takes you more time and effort to do it with the same amount of money, doing the same thing?
For example…
Imagine you order take away from the same place many times, and lately it takes longer and longer for the food to arrive, and the food may start getting a bit cold…and it doesn’t seem to be getting better in the future, but the prices don’t change…
…do you start getting a feeling this might be a waste of your time and effort or not?
Or another way said….
What is it that people wasting others’ time and effort not understanding but that exactly?
And what is it that people using money…wasting others’ time and effort not understanding but what money does when money is used sensibly?
And in the end, what is it that people don’t understand , when they hear that they have to not waste others’ time and effort when they are using money, as …
Money has to not increase the time and effort for what it is used to do, when it is used sensibly.
Or yet another way said…
When people trade with one another,
In general they do “I do this for you, you do that for me”,
And specifically whatever “this” and “that” is for the specific occasion and instance, so now…
Player do you know what money does…
Money doesn’t do what those who have money say…
Money reduces the time and effort to trade…
Or we are stuck with idiots wasting our time and effort.
Have you ever really thought of that?
Main text
In Kennyshire and Bennyshire, people are playing with money.
Edited by Agatha:
Trimmed for rule 4. This text about Kennyshire and Bennyshire can be found on several other places on the web, for example here: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7114718
Epilogues - Clarifications
when the economy isn't working for the benefit of the general population, then you have to remember that the economists also say that the economy isn't working.
Why? Because either:
1.The economists are saying that the economy is working, when it is working for the benefit of the general population.
or...
2.The economists are saying that the economy is working, when it isn't working for the benefit of the general population.
but then...
3.I can easily imagine other people who claim that the economy is working, when it it working for the benefit of the general population and are willing to make sense of the economy this way, are followed by the general population (that has happened in economic history, you can search it online...), no?
When most in the economy say
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for most, most care for the way the economy goes…to happen again and again, or if the economy goes another way…
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for most, most don’t care for the way the economy goes…to happen again and again, but if this is the way the economy goes…
If in the end, when most in the economy say that the economy is fun for most, most don’t care for the way the economy goes…to happen again and again, then it doesn’t seem to me that most in the economy really want the way that is fun for most to happen again and again…does it seem to you?
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for few only, whatever way the economy goes, it is a waste of time and effort for most if it happens again and again, and most want to do something else, or if the economy goes another way…
When most in the economy say that the economy if fun for few only, whatever way the economy goes, it is not a waste of time and effort for most if it happens again and again, or most don’t want to do something else, but if this is the way the economy goes…
If in the end, when most in the economy say that the economy if fun for few only, whatever way the economy goes, it is not a waste of time and effort for most if it happens again and again, or most don’t want to do something else, then it doesn’t seem to me that most in the economy really want the way that is fun not only for few but for most to happen again and again…does it seem to you?
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for one only, whatever way the economy goes, most say it has to not happen again, and most want to do something about it, or if the economy goes another way…
When most in the economy say that the economy is fun for one only, whatever way the economy goes, most don’t say it has to not happen again, or most don’t want to do something about it, but if this is the way that the economy goes…
If in the end, when most in the economy say that the economy is fun for one only, whatever way the economy goes, most don’t say it has to not happen again, or most don’t want to do something about it, then it doesn’t seem to me that whatever one does isn’t fun for most…does it seem to you?
When few in the economy say
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for most in reality, most in the economy don’t think that money does whatever those who have money want money to do, or if this isn’t the case in the economy….
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for most in reality, most in the economy think that money does whatever those who have money want money to do, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when few in the economy say what money is used to do for most in reality, most in the economy think that money does whatever those who have money want to do, then it doesn’t seem to me what money does in reality has fun consequences for most in the economy…does it seem to you?
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for few in reality, most in the economy don’t want to spend time and effort thinking about that, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for few in reality, most in the economy want to spend time and effort thinking about that, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end when few in the economy say what money is used to do for few in reality, most in the economy want to spend time and effort thinking about that, then it doesn’t seem to me that few aren’t wasting most ones’ time and effort in reality…does it seem to you?
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for one in reality, one can’t think of a fun way to spend less time and effort to do what that one wants to do than what few say, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When few in the economy say what money is used to do for one in reality, one can think of a fun way to spend less time and effort to do what that one wants to do than what few say, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when few in the economy say what money is used to do for one in reality, one can think of a fun way to spend less time and effort to do what that one wants to do than what few say, then it doesn’t seem to me that one has to spend time and effort with what few say, if most would think otherwise…does it seem to you?
When one in the economy says
When one in the economy says what one wants to do with money to most, most don’t care about what one says, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to most, most care about what one says, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to most, most care about what one says, then it doesn’t seem to me that one is wasting time and effort for most…does it seem to you?
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to few ones, most can tell if that one can do what that one says, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to few ones, most can’t tell if that one can do what that one says, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to few ones, most can’t tell if that one can do what that one says, then it doesn’t seem to me that one isn’t wasting time and effort for few at least…does it seem to you?
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to another one, that particular story and its consequences in reality don’t change later, or if this isn’t the case in the economy…
When one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to another one, that particular story and its consequences in reality change later, but if this is the case in the economy…
If in the end, when one in the economy says what that one wants to do with money to another one, that particular story and its consequences in reality change later, then it doesn’t seems to me that one isn’t a waste of time and effort for another one for this particular story in reality…does it seem to you?
When no one in the economy has to say
When no one in the economy has to say what money does for everyone in reality, money reduces time and effort spend to trade in reality for everyone, or when that doesn’t happen in reality…
When no one in the economy has to say what money does for everyone in reality, money doesn’t reduce the time and effort spend to trade in reality for everyone, but if that does happen in reality…
If in the end, when no one in the economy has to say what money does for everyone in reality, money doesn’t reduce the time and effort spend to trade in reality for everyone, then it doesn’t seem to me that using money while trading isn’t a waste of time and effort for everyone…does it seem to you?
Some of you say that money is the store of value, medium of exchange, unit of account online (Wikipedia)…
Tell that to your girlfriend/spouse/mother in law after you give her money, and the way that you do it increases the time and effort she has to spend to have fun,
Is what I say to you, and also…
You think you are funny?
Nah, you ain’t funny yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTAyNkwrPys
In the end, what’s the summary?
Nature is a lady…
Whatever we do with money, the way we do it has to not ignore the time and effort that we have to spend to do it, otherwise…
Whatever we do with money, the way we do it may ignore the time and effort that we have to spend to do it, but in this case…
If in the end, whatever we do with money, the way we do it may ignore the time and effort that we have to spend to do it, then it doesn’t seem to me that if we want to do whatever we do with money, again…and again…and…again…that we can continue to ignore the time and effort we have to spend to do it, and continue to really have fun, does it seem to you?
Justice is blind, and…
After girls, someplace sometime, have ended talking to one another and have together decided, they point out the ones who are not fun, and the rest show them how…
…MAMA in the end puts order.
Last edited by a moderator:
Lothian
should be banned
Will you pay me to read the above or does the fact it has been removed from several sites as spam tell me all I need to know?