There Really Was Some Voter Fraud!

Warp12 said:
It sounds like you are confused about Warp12's position. The best available evidence for Warp12's position is common sense.

Which isn't too common on this forum, unfortunately. Kind a of a letdown, considering the forum name and all.
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What's the "common sense" here? That some people get away with crime? I think everyone here can agree to that.

However, that justification is not reason to make new laws that end up penalizing citizens who should have every opportunity to vote.
 
Insisting on common sense is a poor fallback when you have no evidence for your claim.
 
sackett said:
Insisting on common sense is a poor fallback when you have no evidence for your claim.
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What's my claim that you dispute?

1) More voter fraud occurs than is detected and prosecuted?

Common sense will tell you, and statistics show, that many more crimes, of all types, are committed than come to trial.
2) All voter fraud is not committed by Republicans?

Can you really argue against this with a straight face? With 155 million votes cast?
3) No widespread, organized election fraud took place?

Do you dispute this? The real issue here is that I am not a Dem. So, there is a tendency by some to apply certain assumptions, in very broad strokes, about my underlying beliefs.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
Texas cop that ran a repairman off the road and held at gunpoint indicted. He was convinced the man was delivering fraudulent ballots.



https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/for...ssault-in-phony-election-fraud-confrontation/
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Oh I remember this guy!

If memory serves, once this dweeb had the victim on the ground at gunpoint, an associate of his stole the victim's truck, which police found abandoned a few blocks away. They never caught the associate though; he never came back to meet up with Aguirre once police arrived. Most likely after parking the truck the accomplice had a look in the back himself, realized there wasn't a single ballot back there, and promptly made himself scarce.

Aguirre told police during his interrogation that his "investigation" had determined the victim had a whole crew of illegal immigrants in a shed in his backyard filling out fraudulent ballots, but when the real police had a look all they found was the victim's yard tools.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Wow.

It is certain that some voter fraud has happened and people got away with it. However, there is no evidence that any amount significant enough to sway an election has happened. What you're arguing is that some people get away with crime, and that is true. It's not enough crime to warrant new laws that would disenfranchise and discourage lawful voting. GOP is constantly passing laws that make it harder and harder for people who likely are Democrat to vote and they do it claiming that voter fraud is a huge problem do be dealt with. It appears you agree that voter fraud isn't a huge problem but I believe you agree with the GOP "voter fraud" laws that they keep passing that just happen to advantage the Republican party.
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I agree with you but I think Stacy Abrams would not.
 
What is more corrosive to democracy? Not getting worked up over the small rate of voter fraud that has essentially zero impact on electoral outcomes, or inventing fraud in order to induce unreasonable fear?

Even if the latter is not attributed to the opposing team, for own partisan designs, it is still far worse. Because it serves the dual purpose of reducing public confidence and providing a pretext to 'fix' a non-existent problem. Any legislation built on a foundation of lies is no legislation at all.
 
Common Sense is another word for "I already know the truth, I don't need data".

Become a Bayesian, for crying out loud!
 
Lurch said:
What is more corrosive to democracy? Not getting worked up over the small rate of voter fraud that has essentially zero impact on electoral outcomes, or inventing fraud in order to induce unreasonable fear?

Even if the latter is not attributed to the opposing team, for own partisan designs, it is still far worse. Because it serves the dual purpose of reducing public confidence and providing a pretext to 'fix' a non-existent problem. Any legislation built on a foundation of lies is no legislation at all.
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what is the greater infringement on your vote: having your vote diluted by a miniscule amount, or not being able to vote at all?
I would postulate that ALL Republican policy positions are based on an absence of the Veil of Ignorance,i.e. they are designed to benefit a special group and hurt over groups: GOP agendas all are designed to further their privilege, which is another way to say that they are aimed to divide the country further.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Common Sense is another word for "I already know the truth, I don't need data".

Become a Bayesian, for crying out loud!
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Remember when the Trumpettes were whining about Benford's Law and how that "proved" Trump had won? IIRR it was Larry Correia who started that nonsense, but we had posters here further demonstrating their abject ignorance.
:rolleyes:
 
Checkmite said:
Oh I remember this guy!

If memory serves, once this dweeb had the victim on the ground at gunpoint, an associate of his stole the victim's truck, which police found abandoned a few blocks away. They never caught the associate though; he never came back to meet up with Aguirre once police arrived. Most likely after parking the truck the accomplice had a look in the back himself, realized there wasn't a single ballot back there, and promptly made himself scarce.

Aguirre told police during his interrogation that his "investigation" had determined the victim had a whole crew of illegal immigrants in a shed in his backyard filling out fraudulent ballots, but when the real police had a look all they found was the victim's yard tools.
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I had totally forgotten about that. I can't find anything about this unidentified accomplice. I guess the goon had the good sense to keep his mouth shut and not implicate his accomplice.

Lol I imagine a went a bit like this. He thought he was helping his buddy bust a huge vote rigging scheme wide open, helped with the armed hijacking, took the truck down the road a bit before looking in the back only to find repair equipment. Apparently he pretty quickly realized how bad he screwed up because he made himself scarce before the cops showed up. Going from Hero to guy committing an armed kidnapping must have been one hell of a whiplash.

Yeah, so it's obviously a criminal conspiracy. You would hope that the people funding this goon would also be facing criminal charges, but its entirely possible the system will just grind this guy into dust and call it a done deal.
 
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It’s stories like this that make me hesitant when my one sketchy friend asks me to help him take his truck to the shop.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I had totally forgotten about that. I can't find anything about this unidentified accomplice. I guess the goon had the good sense to keep his mouth shut and not implicate his accomplice.

Lol I imagine a went a bit like this. He thought he was helping his buddy bust a huge vote rigging scheme wide open, helped with the armed hijacking, took the truck down the road a bit before looking in the back only to find repair equipment. Apparently he pretty quickly realized how bad he screwed up because he made himself scarce before the cops showed up. Going from Hero to guy committing an armed kidnapping must have been one hell of a whiplash.
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No, no. The mysterious associate was actually a Democrat plant. Once he drove the truck away, he removed all of the fake ballots so they could be distributed elsewhere and the empty truck would discredit the brave patriot. Don't you see?!? It's so obvious!! :D
 
Warp12 said:
What's my claim that you dispute?

1) More voter fraud occurs than is detected and prosecuted?

Common sense will tell you, and statistics show, that many more crimes, of all types, are committed than come to trial.
2) All voter fraud is not committed by Republicans?

Can you really argue against this with a straight face? With 155 million votes cast?
3) No widespread, organized election fraud took place?

Do you dispute this? The real issue here is that I am not a Dem. So, there is a tendency by some to apply certain assumptions, in very broad strokes, about my underlying beliefs.
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I'm not aware that anyone made claims to the contrary that necessitated these claims from you in the first place. You seem to be arguing with no one about nothing.

As to whatever larger point you think you're making, that requires articulation and citation.
 
johnny karate said:
I'm not aware that anyone made claims to the contrary that necessitated these claims from you in the first place. You seem to be arguing with no one about nothing.

As to whatever larger point you think you're making, that requires articulation and citation.
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There is no larger point. There is no point at all, really.
 
johnny karate said:
I'm not aware that anyone made claims to the contrary that necessitated these claims from you in the first place. You seem to be arguing with no one about nothing.

As to whatever larger point you think you're making, that requires articulation and citation.
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That's what I came away with from it too. Has someone said anything to the contrary?

At the end of those statements all you can do is say, "No **** man".

I think he's trying to say that when "many more" of the crimes happen, in this case, that means that there was more voter fraud than we have seen. Which, no **** man. I think he's then confusing that with people saying "there wasn't significant voter fraud to make a difference", and here we are. Someone screaming at the clouds about something no one is arguing with him about.
 
Arguing and then denying there's any argument to be had is well worn trolling tactic. Not sure what's shocking about seeing it here.
 
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