Cont: Jogging in Georgia while black - The Trial

[plague311]

Again, just to be fair: Arbery wasn't "just jogging".ook at the video of him leaving the house- that's a running full tilt sprint. And since the hillbilly boys were on the lookout for a suspected the if or trespasser or whatever, it amounts to more than some black guy jogging.

No, it doesn't amount to more than that, and it's not "being fair" to anyone but the people that killed Arbery. I don't give a **** how fast he was running. They had no idea where he was coming from at all. If, for some ****** up reason, me saying "running" is better than "jogging", then awesome lol. I'll start saying "running".

It doesn't amount to anything more than some black guy running. I didn't realize the ******* speed he was running at determines he's suspicious or whatever, but I guess that's how some people view the world.

Not defending these prices at all, but that doesn't mean we need to spin the facts. The truth is obscene enough.

Nothing is being spun. Watch the entirety of all the videos. The actual defense is saying he wasn't running that fast, he slowed down to get hit by Roddie, etc. I'm not spinning ****.

And with this and the Rittenhouse matter and others, I am losing patience with prosecutors not accusing men holding long guns "at the ready" to be brandishing, instead of carrying. Really want to start seeing formal definitions for open carry of long guns, in particular a requirement that they be slung. If handguns need to be holstered (not in firing position), so should long arms.

Duly noted.

 

[Thermal]

No, it doesn't amount to more than that, and it's not "being fair" to anyone but the people that killed Arbery. I don't give a **** how fast he was running. They had no idea where he was coming from at all. If, for some ****** up reason, me saying "running" is better than "jogging", then awesome lol. I'll start saying "running".

It doesn't amount to anything more than some black guy running. I didn't realize the ******* speed he was running at determines he's suspicious or whatever, but I guess that's how some people view the world.

Come on man. You can see the difference between saying someone was just jogging, versus someone bolting away from a house that had trespassing issues. It doesn't make the McMicheals any less guilty. It makes us more reasonable to call it what it is.

Nothing is being spun. Watch the entirety of all the videos. The actual defense is saying he wasn't running that fast, he slowed down to get hit by Roddie, etc. I'm not spinning ****.

Absolutely ******* get the mother ******* *********** hell out of here! That's what I've taken a ton of flack for pointing out. It's a simple time over distance observation. He was, demonstrably, not moving very fast.

But again, it's only academic. Doesn't make the fat asses the slightest bit less culpable, whether Arbery was crawling or Usain Bolt flying.

Duly noted.

If only the prosecutor would.

 

[plague311]

Come on man. You can see the difference between saying someone was just jogging, versus someone bolting away from a house that had trespassing issues. It doesn't make the McMicheals any less guilty. It makes us more reasonable to call it what it is.

It makes absolutely no difference at all because they had absolutely no idea whatsoever, for like the millionth time, where he was coming from at that time. They had no idea he had been to the house at all. Best case they had a vague idea

Absolutely ******* get the mother ******* *********** hell out of here! That's what I've taken a ton of flack for pointing out. It's a simple time over distance observation. He was, demonstrably, not moving very fast.

Ok. Again, duly noted. I haven't participated much in this thread until the end, so I'll take your word for it.

That being said, we have absolutely no idea how fast he was running when he ran past the McMichael's house. There's no video. You and I can go back and forth on this until the sun comes up, but the fact is no one knows. The only, and I mean the absolute only, one that knows is the elder McMichael. He's the one that saw him and got his gun and son.

But again, it's only academic. Doesn't make the fat asses the slightest bit less culpable, whether Arbery was crawling or Usain Bolt flying.

Nope, it doesn't. Hence why I didn't participate in that section of this thread. It's debating a point that means **** all to the entirety of the situation. He could be the Flash for all I care and it wouldn't change what happened.

 

[smartcooky]

Again, just to be fair: Arbery wasn't "just jogging". Look at the video of him leaving the house- that's a running full tilt sprint.

Come on man. You can see the difference between saying someone was just jogging, versus someone bolting away from a house that had trespassing issues. It doesn't make the McMicheals any less guilty. It makes us more reasonable to call it what it is.

Means nothing. If he was a keen jogger (and there have been people testifying that he was), then he might have been undertaking interval training. I used to do this all the time when I was running to train for equestrian endurance riding (used to interval train my horse too).

It involves jogging for a while, sometimes even walking or resting, and then putting in a sudden burst of sprint running at full speed for 20 to 40 seconds, and then back to jogging.

Now, if he stopped at the house for a short walk around, then sprinting away from the house would be a very likely next action. It also might go some way to explaining why he was sprinting away from the house then later seen jogging. If I was interval training, that is certainly the sort of thing I might do.

 

[Thermal]

Means nothing. If he was a keen jogger (and there have been people testifying that he was), then he might have been undertaking interval training. I used to do this all the time when I was running to train for equestrian endurance riding (used to interval train my horse too).

It involves jogging for a while, sometimes even walking or resting, and then putting in a sudden burst of sprint running at full speed for 20 to 40 seconds, and then back to jogging.

Now, if he stopped at the house for a short walk around, then sprinting away from the house would be a very likely next action. It also might go some way to explaining why he was sprinting away from the house then later seen jogging. If I was interval training, that is certainly the sort of thing I might do.

We do the same here, usually calling it HIIT training (High Intensity Interval Training). Highly effective. But then he is not properly jogging. Jogging is a slow moving activity. You can't be a "jogger" at a full tilt windsprint.

My only issue with all this is describing accurately, and not choosing biased phrasing to feed into a specific narrative.

It means nothing in terms of the rednecks' guilt. It means a bit in terms of skeptical discussion.

 

[plague311]

It doesn't matter, it's a red herring anyway. He was running at several different speeds over the course of all of the videos that appeared throughout this trial.

What we know for absolutely sure is that Arbery NEVER took anything from the house. We know he was in the house 3 times over the course of a few months, walked around, and left. We know that the McMichael's had no idea if Arbery went to the house, but we do know that the McMichael's knew he hadn't taken anything because he had nowhere to put it.

The rate of speed that he was running means nothing at all. It has no effect on anything. You can describe it as jogging if you want. He was definitely jogging for a significantly longer period of time than he was running for sure. If you want to call it running, then call it running, but Arbery certainly wasn't "running full tilt" for the entirety of the video, or the entirety of his run.

Describe it however you want, neither is wrong. So whatever makes you guys feel better.

 

[Thermal]

Saying the McMicheals went after Arbery just because he was jogging on their street is exactly like saying Kyle Rittenhouse was just a wholesome boy protecting himself and his community. It's not being objective. It's loaded phrasing.

Not important to the case though, as we all agree.

 

[plague311]

Saying the McMicheals went after Arbery just because he was jogging on their street is exactly like saying Kyle Rittenhouse was just a wholesome boy protecting himself and his community. It's not being objective. It's loaded phrasing.

How do you know? What evidence are you using to show that he was running, any quicker than a jog, past the McMichael's house. You said you saw him on the security footage leaving the house, so what are you basing the speed he was going past the McMichael's house on? I don't know that I've seen that video as of yet, but maybe I missed it.

 

[Thermal]

How do you know? What evidence are you using to show that he was running, any quicker than a jog, past the McMichael's house. You said you saw him on the security footage leaving the house, so what are you basing the speed he was going past the McMichael's house on? I don't know that I've seen that video as of yet, but maybe I missed it.

We did that for pages and pages earlier in the discussion. No way in hell I'm going there again.

Condensed version: very early in the original thread, the NYT put together a map reconstructed from home security footage which showed how far the chase went back and forth. Using rough scaling, it was a couple hundred yards travelled, total. Significant amount of running, for me, anyway.

It was further pointed out that the chase took place over about 8 1/2 minutes. Doing some loose math, that's a walking pace.

Eta: there was video showing Arbery leaving English's front door, caught from across the street. The man was flying.

But again, no way in hell I'm going back to that one.

 

[plague311]

We did that for pages and pages earlier in the discussion. No way in hell I'm going there again.

Condensed version: very early in the original thread, the NYT put together a map reconstructed from home security footage which showed how far the chase went back and forth. Using rough scaling, it was a couple hundred yards. Significant amount of running, for me, anyway.

It was further pointed out that the chase took place over about 8 1/2 minutes. Doing some loose math, that's a walking pace.

But again, no way in hell I'm going back to that one.

I'd maybe refresh yourself with the evidence that's come out since then. You're, by your own admission, estimating and making assumptions. Which is fine, again, you can be under any impression you want to be about this because it means nothing.

 

[smartcooky]

We do the same here, usually calling it HIIT training (High Intensity Interval Training). Highly effective. But then he is not properly jogging. Jogging is a slow moving activity. You can't be a "jogger" at a full tilt windsprint..

But that's the whole point, its jog, walk, sprint at intervals and for lengths of time, and those intervals and lengths of time vary according to the level of fitness of the runner.

We see him walking around the house, but we don't really know how long he was walking around for.. did he run up to the house and go in; did he walk up to the house and go in (if so, how long had he been walking - we don't know). We see him sprinting away from the house, but how long did he sprint for; 20 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute? Again we don't know.

I think we can make no determination from the limited video we have seen. In that part of the video where we see him being filmed from Bryant's truck heading towards the McMichaels' truck shortly before he was murdered, that pace looks like a good strong jog, about the sort of pace I used to run.

There has also been evidence presented at trial that places Arbery at the house a few weeks before he was murdered. A woman testified to seeing some fitting Arbury's, in running gear, standing in the door frame of the house,. She looked directly at him, and he looked directly at her. He made no effort to hide or run away.

Here is that testimony.. the video is 17min long but the important part is just four minutes, and the video is cued to 5:32 - the start of that part.

https://youtu.be/HF297YyKBDA?t=332

This makes it seem less likely to me that he thought he was doing anything wrong by being in the house, and therefore less likely that his sprinting away was nefarious. Now, if he didn't sprint away when he was seen at the house, why would he sprint away when he was not seen?

 

[Thermal]

I'd maybe refresh yourself with the evidence that's come out since then. You're, by your own admission, estimating and making assumptions. Which is fine, again, you can be under any impression you want to be about this because it means nothing.

Estimating speed using distance travelled and time is not perfect, but is pretty close. Another poster worked it out to about 1mph average pace. Because I was estimating, I didn't attempt a numerical guess. But I wasn't off by an order of magnitude.

Yet again, I don't care and it's not important. Those saying Arbery was simply a wholesome jogger should take your advice on assumptions as well. Which was my only point.

 

[Butter!]

I'm from Georgia and the sight of a black man or woman jogging is such a common sight that this post intrigues me. Is it because white Georgians are perceived to be racist to the point to where it is not safe to jog if you're black in the presence of white people?

Georgia has changed. I don't think we are any more racist than say Ohio or Washington state for that matter.

Blacks jog for their health and well being. Whites seldom bother them and on the rare occasion when they do they face a hate crime arrest which can get them many years in prison.

Thanks for another stellar contribution.

 

[Thermal]

But that's the whole point, its jog, walk, sprint at intervals and for lengths of time, and those intervals and lengths of time vary according to the level of fitness of the runner.

We see him walking around the house, but we don't really know how long he was walking around for.. did he run up to the house and go in; did he walk up to the house and go in (if so, how long had he been walking - we don't know). We see him sprinting away from the house, but how long did he sprint for; 20 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute? Again we don't know.

I think we can make no determination from the limited video we have seen. In that part of the video where we see him being filmed from Bryant's truck heading towards the McMichaels' truck shortly before he was murdered, that pace looks like a good strong jog, about the sort of pace I used to run.

There has also been evidence presented at trial that places Arbery at the house a few weeks before he was murdered. A woman testified to seeing some fitting Arbury's, in running gear, standing in the door frame of the house,. She looked directly at him, and he looked directly at her. He made no effort to hide or run away.

Here is that testimony.. the video is 17min long but the important part is just four minutes, and the video is cued to 5:32 - the start of that part.

https://youtu.be/HF297YyKBDA?t=332

This makes it seem less likely to me that he thought he was doing anything wrong by being in the house, and therefore less likely that his sprinting away was nefarious. Now, if he didn't sprint away when he was seen at the house, why would he sprint away when he was not seen?

That's actually been my whole argument with The Mile Time^TM and all that. I dont think Arbery realized he was in real danger till the very end. He didn't think he was doing anything wrong, and was likely bemused or annoyed by the wannabe Keystone Cops chasing after him.

I mention that he ran from the house only to give context to why the McMicheals were suspicious (important: it doesn't matter bc it was none of their business). He was not on the road, just trotting along. He bolted from a property (and likely was seen running across the long front yard).

But at the time I was making those arguments, the thread lacked a boogeyman, so the weird putting words in my mouth thing got heated.

 

[Myriad]

In the places I've lived, hardly anyone has even used the word "jogging" since the 1970s. It's just not a thing. If it's not walking it's running, whether you go fast or slow. You can buy walking shoes and running shoes but no manufacturer markets "jogging shoes." The ubiquitous 5K charity "races" often specify that they don't mind if you walk the route if you prefer not to run it or cannot run it; they don't even mention "jogging" it as an option. In the local parks and along the streets, there's no difference in how a runner is perceived based on how fast they're going. Not even in their athleticism, since unless you watch them for a long time you can't be sure that a slow runner isn't pacing for a long distance, or that a fast runner is. If you're not allowed to run in a private location (like a shopping mall), you're not allowed to "jog" there either. If "jogging" along a street doesn't arouse suspicion or safety concerns, then "running" there doesn't either.

 

[arthwollipot]

In the places I've lived, hardly anyone has even used the word "jogging" since the 1970s. It's just not a thing. If it's not walking it's running, whether you go fast or slow. You can buy walking shoes and running shoes but no manufacturer markets "jogging shoes." The ubiquitous 5K charity "races" often specify that they don't mind if you walk the route if you prefer not to run it or cannot run it; they don't even mention "jogging" it as an option. In the local parks and along the streets, there's no difference in how a runner is perceived based on how fast they're going. Not even in their athleticism, since unless you watch them for a long time you can't be sure that a slow runner isn't pacing for a long distance, or that a fast runner is. If you're not allowed to run in a private location (like a shopping mall), you're not allowed to "jog" there either. If "jogging" along a street doesn't arouse suspicion or safety concerns, then "running" there doesn't either.

Jogging is definitely a term in active use in the places I've lived.

 

[Warp12]

I'm from Georgia and the sight of a black man or woman jogging is such a common sight that this post intrigues me. Is it because white Georgians are perceived to be racist to the point to where it is not safe to jog if you're black in the presence of white people?

Georgia has changed. I don't think we are any more racist than say Ohio or Washington state for that matter.

Blacks jog for their health and well being. Whites seldom bother them and on the rare occasion when they do they face a hate crime arrest which can get them many years in prison.

I agree, I'm sick and tired of these stereotypes about blacks. Of course blacks jog/run for their health. We all know that it is swimming that they generally avoid.

It is generally safe for blacks to jog around whites. But sometimes there may be some racially-motivated killers in the neighborhood. Hence, here we are.

 

[smartcooky]

Jogging is definitely a term in active use in the places I've lived.

And here. The terms are used interchangeably.

 

[Cainkane1]

I'm not really sure what you were getting at here, but in this case a black man jogging was enough to warrant him getting shot. He did nothing else.

Did they shoot him because he was black or did they shoot him because they thought he was a thief making a run for it? either way they had no right to shoot him and I deplore their actions. I also hope the shooters get punished to the full extent of the law.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

In the places I've lived, hardly anyone has even used the word "jogging" since the 1970s. It's just not a thing.

Jogging is definitely a term in active use in the places I've lived.

And here. The terms are used interchangeably.

Where I have lived, serious runners tend to distinguish jogging from running. Going substantially slower than your marathon pace is jogging. As a rule, marathon pace or faster is referred to as running.

The Wikipedia article on Mary Decker Slaney attributes this factoid to a 2010 article in Sports Illustrated:

...she retired with her husband to a 55-acre (22 ha) property in Eugene, Oregon, where she jogs every other day.

Having run with Slaney on a few occasions in the early 1990s, I suspect her jogging pace, even today, is between 8 and 10 minutes per mile.