Cont: The Biden Presidency Part II

[TurkeysGhost]

Ok, then what makes them "worse" than the Democrats, all things said and done? If they're doing the will of the people they represent, and the people are voting them in, then that actually sounds pretty great. Yeah?

Can we skip to the part where you make some point? Bobbing a thread is not something I associate with you normally.

 

[plague311]

Lol! I’m joking but in the end it doesn’t matter. Persuading people not to vote for the Democrats means you are doing the work for Republicans whether you are one or not.

If you're the type of person that's persuaded by someone named "plague311" on an obscure message board, to vote for a particular party then I don't know what to tell you.

If you want you can call me a GOP operative though. I've voted for GOP candidates, several times actually. I live in North Dakota.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Lol! I’m joking but in the end it doesn’t matter. Persuading people not to vote for the Democrats means you are doing the work for Republicans whether you are one or not.

Then again, demanding that people support the Democrats while the party refuses to make changes to keep their project viable is also helping the Republicans win.

The 2016 Hilary loss was an honest shock, so you can give the party a break on that one. People were screaming from the rafters about the danger of runnign such a terrible candidate, but you can understand why the party had their doubts. Insisting on running status-quo ghouls in 2021, 2022, 2024 and onward is hard to excuse.

 

[plague311]

Can we skip to the part where you make some point? Bobbing a thread is not something I associate with you normally.

I'm adding equally as much to this thread as you complaining about the inactivity of Democrats...or is what you're doing somehow more productive?

My point has been the same since I started posting. If the Democrats are a **** party, as you've pointed out and the Republicans are a **** party, as you've pointed out. Then let me ask you what the hell your point is? LoL.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I'm adding equally as much to this thread as you complaining about the inactivity of Democrats...or is what you're doing somehow more productive?

My point has been the same since I started posting. If the Democrats are a **** party, as you've pointed out and the Republicans are a **** party, as you've pointed out. Then let me ask you what the hell your point is? LoL.

I guess the underlying point is that while the Trumpist base is quite fanatical, they don't approach anything close to a majority.

the only reason they can win these democratic contests is because the Democrats also don't represent any popular majority. People begrudgingly support them occasionally, but there's a huge reservoir of popular policies and positions that the liberals ought to be tapping into in order to actually win. The fact they resist doing so, quite effectively, is quite damning.

The republicans are caught in a tough spot. They must keep moving further and further right to stay credible with their base, and that stands to alienate non-Trumpers if they were presented with anything approaching a palatable alternative.

The problem remains that the liberals of the Democratic party have made a point of totally insulating themselves from the public will. They remains a reactive party, running on "we're not them", which only has so much appeal.

I guess it's fair to ask why this matters, though I had assumed this was understood without being explicit. The Trumpist movement is a fascist movement, and it would be really, really bad for it to continue to succeed politically. The fact that the Democratic party refuses to do the things necessary to establish a popular alternative to a fascist state is probably the greatest danger facing this country at this time. Given the immediacy of the threat, it's not even fair to call it short sighted, but rather either delusional or indifferent to the current state of danger.

The left is exhausted from having their ass out in the breeze all alone, and the libs have totally checked out. If nothing changes, the fascists will seize power.

 

[plague311]

The left is exhausted from having their ass out in the breeze all alone, and the libs have totally checked out. If nothing changes, the fascists will seize power.

That sucks. The Dems should have got their **** together because I would say without any hesitation that come the 2022 midterms the GOP will have everything except the WH. I don't think there's any doubt there. They haven't won a statewide election in 16 years and they took...everything in Virginia, didn't they? Looks like they might get NJ as well.

Throughout everything you've said about how terrible and fascist the GOP is it still doesn't seem to matter. It appears the GOP can be as terrible as they want and people will vote for them because that's what the people want.

The real question is what can the Dems do? Like you've implied, nothing. They're their own worst enemy. You implied the GOP is stuck, and it will be their downfall, but it certainly doesn't look like it.

Now ALL of that being said, I don't think these elections meant all that much.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The real question is what can the Dems do? Like you've implied, nothing. They're their own worst enemy. You implied the GOP is stuck, and it will be their downfall, but it certainly doesn't look like it.

Now ALL of that being said, I don't think these elections meant all that much.

I would quibble here, I say the Dems will do nothing, but they could actually do a lot. There simply isn't the will to do so.

The GOP isn't stuck, but there's probably a some ceiling how popular their fascist message can be, and I'd guess it's well short of a majority. The problem is that, in the absence of a popular alternative, that ceiling may not be much of an inhibitor.

 

[plague311]

I would quibble here, I say the Dems will do nothing, but they could actually do a lot. There simply isn't the will to do so.

Again, this is so baffling to me. Then why would you vote for them? If they don't have the will to change then the only reason you're voting for them is so they can be obstructionists. That's it, there's no other positive to having a Dem in a political position.

The GOP isn't stuck, but there's probably a some ceiling how popular their fascist message can be, and I'd guess it's well short of a majority. The problem is that, in the absence of a popular alternative, that ceiling may not be much of an inhibitor.

Reading through the news today, there is no other way to say it but that the Dems got the ******* **** kicked out of them yesterday. Outside of absolutely assured victories, they lost almost everything else. The Dems even thought NJ was a shoe-in and it looks like they're going to lose that too.

Hell, NYC voted in 4 GOP council seats. The GOP isn't stuck at all, they're ball stomping the Dems whenever the opportunity presents itself.

I'm glad you guys are pointing out the Dem flaws, it's important to do, but even as you're implying it's an exercise in futility. The Dems are a do-nothing party. They stand in their own way at every given opportunity.

 

[Tero]

It's not all bad. Some republicans got elected. But Trump is still toxic in those suburban areas. Any involvement by him in the 2024 election will just hurt the party. They are dome with him just past Nov 2022.

 

[Tero]

Ok, then what makes them "worse" than the Democrats, all things said and done? If they're doing the will of the people they represent, and the people are voting them in, then that actually sounds pretty great. Yeah?

Er..they do not represent the people. They did a while back and had time to gerrymander all the districts.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I'm glad you guys are pointing out the Dem flaws, it's important to do, but even as you're implying it's an exercise in futility. The Dems are a do-nothing party. They stand in their own way at every given opportunity.

I think you misunderstand me (or me you).

I don't think criticizing the party is an exercise in futility. A pretty severe course correction is exactly what it needs. Whether or not this can happen, or will, is very much an open question.

They are a do-nothing party, but there's really no reason they need continue to be so.

But, as said better upthread, the Dems will probably respond to this warning shot by triangulating even harder into a meaningless position.

 

[plague311]

Er..they do not represent the people. They did a while back and had time to gerrymander all the districts.

Uhm, what? If they gerrymandered the districts then they're creating districts of people that will vote for them. Meaning, they're representing those people. What am I missing?

I've pretty much said all I have to say about this whole thing. I would like to say that I was told that if I was discouraging people to vote for Democrats, I was working for Republicans. So far, in my view, our forum Democrats have put up the best, most solid, most rational reasons to either not vote for Democrats, or to not vote at all, than I ever will.

 

[Aridas]

I hope they do get trounced in the midterms, if I'm being honest. It's not like it would be anything new, it happens all of the time.

My question wasn't being asked to ALL voters. It's being asked to you guys. To the people here. Why would the people here vote for a Dem party that does absolutely nothing positive? Why even bother?

Personally, I vote Democrat because the Democratic Party mostly tries to act and move the country in a manner that I support and because the Republican Party is absolutely not, right now.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Uhm, what? If they gerrymandered the districts then they're creating districts of people that will vote for them. Meaning, they're representing those people. What am I missing?

I've pretty much said all I have to say about this whole thing. I would like to say that I was told that if I was discouraging people to vote for Democrats, I was working for Republicans. So far, in my view, our forum Democrats have put up the best, most solid, most rational reasons to either not vote for Democrats, or to not vote at all, than I ever will.

I'm not a Democrat.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Uhm, what? If they gerrymandered the districts then they're creating districts of people that will vote for them. Meaning, they're representing those people. What am I missing?

I've pretty much said all I have to say about this whole thing. I would like to say that I was told that if I was discouraging people to vote for Democrats, I was working for Republicans. So far, in my view, our forum Democrats have put up the best, most solid, most rational reasons to either not vote for Democrats, or to not vote at all, than I ever will.

Because I don't want the world to end just because I haven't had a perfect, tailored exactly for me choice handed to my idealistic cause purity ass on a silver platter.

"Wah wah neither of the two choices is perfect." Suck it up butter cup and vote for the side that ISN'T functional evil, insane, and wrong about literally everything.

 

[plague311]

Because I don't want the world to end just because I haven't had a perfect, tailored exactly for me choice handed to my idealistic cause purity ass on a silver platter.

"Wah wah neither of the two choices is perfect." Suck it up butter cup and vote for the side that ISN'T functional evil, insane, and wrong about literally everything.

It makes no difference to me. Again, I'm in North Dakota. My vote means absolutely nothing at all.

Also, don't want the world to end? Really? We made it through all 4 years of Trump. We're all still here. We'll be fine.

I'm not a Democrat.

Then I wasn't talking about you. Read the entirety of the thread.

________________________________________________________

Looks like the NJ governor race has opened up a bit. Murphy was up by 14k last I checked.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Because I don't want the world to end just because I haven't had a perfect, tailored exactly for me choice handed to my idealistic cause purity ass on a silver platter.

"Wah wah neither of the two choices is perfect." Suck it up butter cup and vote for the side that ISN'T functional evil, insane, and wrong about literally everything.

Blaming the voters seems like an ass-backwards approach to the political process. You may as well scream at the sun to not shine and the wind to not blow.

Politicians have 0 power to compel people into voting, and total control over their own messaging and political tactics. Perhaps they should try to modulate the things they have power over instead of crying about apathetic voters.

This is a really common sentiment among liberals, and I don't see how it can be interpreted as anything but a total hostility towards the idea that politicians need to earn votes, with the predictably disastrous results.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

vote for the side that ISN'T functional evil, insane, and wrong about literally everything.

That's what the voters did.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That's what the voters did.

Shockingly you're wrong about which side is wrong.

Republicans have basically achieved the "Liar's Paradox" in real life.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

With the absolute hate for Democrats, even within their own party, if you don't mind me asking. Why the **** do you vote for them? I mean, I've looked through 3 threads now and there isn't a positive thing to be said about a democrat in any of them. So why do you guys even bother voting at all? If you hate the Dems so much because they don't get anything done, they're useless, they can't run the government, then why show up? I don't get it.

Exactly! You're being acerbic, I think, but this is why they'll lose. They're relying on what's to vote AGAINST and not doing anything worth voting FOR.